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Microsoft Research chief scientist has no issue with Recall

theregister.com

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Re: Microsoft Research chief scientist has no issue with Recall

#81

Post by Brian_K_White »

freilanzer wrote: post #12
CodeCompost wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I want this?

If it's completely open, local, and trustworthy, I would definitely use it as a database of my activities. To query for and find something you didn't bother saving, for example, or combine it with RAG would be incredible. Since it's screenshotting everything - passwords, sensitive information, etc. - it can in practice never be trustworthy, though.

Even the theoretical legitimate usage is just nothing I ever wanted, certainly not nearly enough to spend the cpu, disk, and attack surface on. The value is microscopic and the cost and risk are not.

I can think of no value in a mass of ocr'd screen shots that is remotely worth the cpu and disk cost of generating them or the security risk of them merely existing anywhere, even if the code to do it was gpl.

And the real problem is not me anyway. I use linux. But not one of my relatives I care about does. They are all going to have these terrible things. I can directly take care of a few of them but not most.

Not to mention just everyone else everywhere.

Re: Microsoft Research chief scientist has no issue with Recall

#82

Post by nocsi »

surfingdino wrote: post #59

Microsoft Research should really drop "research" from its name. We are not talking Bell Labs-level of research here. They come up with the most useless "inventions" like Multimouse https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/blog/multimouse-mak... so why are we surprised that Recall is criticised so much?

But how is multimouse useless? The researcher identified a problem, investigated and produced a plausible solution. The entirety of it was driven by a ‘use’. Besides that, what would you propose calling this org that operates somewhat autonomously in an enclave within Microsoft but focuses entirely on research and is staffed entirely by PhDs and PIs?

Re: Microsoft Research chief scientist has no issue with Recall

#83

Post by sfn42 »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #60
hostyle wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Move fast and break things." "Its easier to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission." There are many other well known mantras that i can't recall right now. SV and VC companies do not care in the slightest about users and their data - only about making more money (which these days always seems to involve stealing^Wwarehousing more and more data).

I get your point, but Microsoft is neither Silicon Valley, nor a Venture Capital firm. They are "Big Tech" though.

BT

Re: Microsoft Research chief scientist has no issue with Recall

#84

Post by the_snooze »

hostyle wrote: post #55
bsmartt wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well good news, this feature can be 100% disabled by your IT team, and you dont need these snapdragon high end consumer laptops in your hospital anyway. why am i having to defend microsoft? have we all lost our minds? or do we just shoot first, ask questions later for the lulz

"Move fast and break things." "Its easier to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission." There are many other well known mantras that i can't recall right now. SV and VC companies do not care in the slightest about users and their data - only about making more money (which these days always seems to involve stealing^Wwarehousing more and more data).

I swear, big tech runs on the value system of domestic abusers:

* I want to know everything about you and who you talk to (privacy violations)

* I can change deals unilaterally and do whatever I want without your say-so (disrespecting user agency)

* You can't leave me (vendor lock-in)

Re: Microsoft Research chief scientist has no issue with Recall

#85

Post by Martinussen »

multimoon wrote: post #67
bsmartt wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well good news, this feature can be 100% disabled by your IT team, and you dont need these snapdragon high end consumer laptops in your hospital anyway. why am i having to defend microsoft? have we all lost our minds? or do we just shoot first, ask questions later for the lulz

You shouldn’t be and Microsoft deserves this kind of behavior. This falls well into the category of a feature that nobody asked for and which shouldn’t exist. Microsoft will make this opt out (if we’re lucky enough) and if even then it will be difficult and hidden to do so, so they’ll trap all the normal users and harvest insane amounts of data. I have no problems shooting first when the receiving end is Microsoft, b…

> This falls well into the category of a feature that nobody asked for and which shouldn’t exist.

I am curious what makes you say that. I don't use Windows any more, but I have been experimenting with setups that basically try to do the exact same thing a fair bit lately. I've tried multiple different projects from different authors/teams that solve the same basic problem, it definitely doesn't seem like something nobody is asking for/wants.

Re: Microsoft Research chief scientist has no issue with Recall

#86

Post by hnbad »

RicDan wrote: post #8
kvaneijk wrote: post #3

We've launched a FOSS alternative with OpenRecall https://github.com/openrecall/openrecall to (hopefully) work towards addressing some of the concerns people have with Windows Recall. We think it could be a useful feature but it must be (1) fully auditable/open source (2) using open source local models (3) focused on privacy/security and (4) hardware/OS independent. We're working out the roadmap currently so any feed…

This is my personal opinion, but a big screenshot of Elon in the readme isn't doing you any favours.

A screenshot of one of his tweets no less. Yes, this is likely to leave a bad first impression for many people.

Re: Microsoft Research chief scientist has no issue with Recall

#87

Post by DougN7 »

saagarjha wrote: post #73
barrkel wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't run with full authority on Android, however. My own apps can't access my own data from other apps that I run. This is not something I can forego on my main computing device. I'm willing to tolerate it in a phone because it's just a tool; I wouldn't use a phone to store data I wouldn't mind losing.

What kind of solution are you looking for here? The ability to sign your own apps with a platform signature?

The ability to go in and grab your own data (which you have to do using some app or another), and do whatever you like with it, such as back it up, move it, inspect it, or try to get the data into a new app because the old app no longer runs for some reason.

Re: Microsoft Research chief scientist has no issue with Recall

#89

Post by VyseofArcadia »

Give it a few years. MS will 100% be using data collected by Recall for advertising purposes. I'm sure it will be anonymized, or at least they will attempt to anonymize it. But it will happen.

Part of the problem is that MS has never realigned their internal incentives with their stated goals. The best way to get a good bonus or a promotion is to deliver "impactful" features. Once recall is out there, teams will be chomping at the bit to (ab)use its data to quickly and easily demonstrate impact.

Compounding the problem is that MS has no overarching product vision. No one there is really championing the sort of clean, functional, no-nonsense OS that we all know Windows could be. Or if they are, they are being drowned out by people who have dollar signs in their eyes. Compounding that problem is that ICs and teams are strongly encouraged to be "data-driven", which means a sense of product vision is outright ignored unless you can repeatedly and consistently make up metrics that work towards a clean, functional, no-nonsense OS. This is difficult when your metrics are things like, "did the A group click this button more than the B group".

Re: Microsoft Research chief scientist has no issue with Recall

#90

Post by wolpoli »

KronisLV wrote: post #53
wolpoli wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also looked into transferring WhatsApp data from Android to IOS recently and there is an official way to transfer in both directions now. https://faq.whatsapp.com/686469079565350/?helpref=hc_fnav I didn't end up going through with it through since there was no way to take a Signal backup created in Android and restore it to IOS.

> Your iPhone must be factory new or reset to factory settings to pair with the Move to iOS app and move data from your Android phone As I pointed out in the post, this was pretty much the dealbreaker for me. I had initially set up the iPhone without all of my accounts, just for development, but had gradually carried over my accounts and the apps I need to use. And then I find out that I’d basically need to wipe all…

My bad. I didn't realize that the Move to IOS app had been addressed in your blog.
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