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Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

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Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#81

Post by snailmailman »

dontreact wrote: post #4
pavel_lishin wrote: post #2

> This is a result of Tesla’s strategy to rely upon Tesla Vision to replace all sensors – which they’ve successfully used most recently to replace the ultrasonic parking sensors (USS) on their vehicles. Tesla believes that vision is the solution to achieving all self-driving capabilities, and this includes the elimination of extraneous sensors such as USS and radar. Why are they so hell-bent on using nothing but vide…

Elon’s belief that humans doing it with vision is proof it can be done with video

But it can be done better with more sensors. Why handicap the technology? It seems to me like the compromise isn’t worth it here.

My phone can take my face scan in a room that’s pitch black, because it uses infrared sensors and a projection of dots. It’s able to check who I am, regardless of the natural light in the environment. If that technology was limited to “only a camera” it would be way worse.

A camera is cheaper than LiDAR. But it’s also less capable.

As best I can tell. Other cars just use a dedicated infrared sensor to detect the water? Seems like a weird corner to cut. Seems like tesla cut those in favor of just having other cameras attempt to fill in? But seems like that isn’t working.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#82

Post by selcuka »

_yb2s wrote: post #22
dontreact wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon’s belief that humans doing it with vision is proof it can be done with video

That is a reasonable argument that it is likely to be theoretically possible. It’s absolute madness to jump from “theoretically possible” to production without actually inventing and testing the technology. What is going on over there at Tesla? I suspect an emperors new clothes type of situation where employees are too terrified to state basic facts, like “we tested 20 ideas out but none worked, we haven’t figured ou…

> I suspect an emperors new clothes type of situation where employees are too terrified to state basic facts, like “we tested 20 ideas out but none worked

Or maybe the emperor is a "idea #16 is good enough for me" type of person?

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#83

Post by SkyPuncher »

ra7 wrote: post #53
pavel_lishin wrote: post #2

> This is a result of Tesla’s strategy to rely upon Tesla Vision to replace all sensors – which they’ve successfully used most recently to replace the ultrasonic parking sensors (USS) on their vehicles. Tesla believes that vision is the solution to achieving all self-driving capabilities, and this includes the elimination of extraneous sensors such as USS and radar. Why are they so hell-bent on using nothing but vide…

Combination of cost savings and “first principles” thinking. They tried to save $5 per car by not including a rain sensor. It’s a few million dollars in savings at their scale. At the same time, they spend time and resources engineering a “smart” solution to auto wipers using cameras. And they continue to spend effort on that because it still doesn’t work. Penny wise, pound foolish.

The rain sensor is the one component that I’m shocked they would just spend the $5.

It works so freaking well.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#84

Post by kccqzy »

marricks wrote: post #30
yareal wrote: post #13

Autowiper sensors are some of the simplest, well understood technology around. You place an infrared led at a low angle to the windshield, you place an ir collector so the light from the LED hits it. (Remember that at shallow angles, light reflects off glass.) When water is on the sensor, the angle of refraction and reflection change, and the ir collector suddenly sees much less light. Two components, plus a microcon…

> That's like trying to determine vehicle speed from a camera rather than sensors on the tires or whatever. Don’t give him any ideas. Seems like he has the “not built here” complex

Actually I'm somewhat certain that the vehicle speed is determined by the motor RPM, the known reduction gear ratio, and a known tire size. That's why speed can be inaccurate if you switch to incorrectly sized tires.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#85

Post by tempestn »

why_at wrote: post #52
tempestn wrote: post #48

There are other issues with Tesla's auto wipers. The main one is that, in other cars, you can have the wipers on auto, while still manually increasing or decreasing their speed. So if the wipers aren't going fast enough for you, you can bias the speed upward while maintaining the auto function, and vice-versa. On Teslas you don't have that option; you need to choose between auto and a fixed speed. (My guess is that t…

FYI I have owned a model 3 for about a year now and I have always been able to manually set the speed by pushing the button and then using the horizontal part of the scroll wheel to cycle through the settings.

Ha, maybe that's been an option for longer and I just never thought to try that particular incantation. I even googled this issue and didn't discover that. Will have to try on mine now.

I do find it amusing that you now have the option of long pressing the scroll wheel or pressing the stalk button to thrn turn the wheel to change speeds... But the direction of the change in those two cases is reversed; in one case up on the wheel is faster, and in the other it's slower.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#86

Post by nradov »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #28
dontreact wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon’s belief that humans doing it with vision is proof it can be done with video

Humans do it with variable focus vision. The Tesla cameras are permanently focused at infinity.

Normal human eyes also have more dynamic range than the cheap cameras used in Teslas. This matters in some difficult lighting conditions.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#87

Post by brandonagr2 »

vel0city wrote: post #72
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

TBH, I hate auto wipers and have always believed them to be a tech solution looking for a problem. Never once have I been in rainy weather and thought "gee, what should I do?". I currently have a car with auto wipers (I'm not sure but I think they use the "standard" infrared sensor to detect rain) and I find them worse than manual, intermittent wipers in every way. I think the biggest problem is that the wipers tend…

So with auto wipers, sometimes you need to manually turn on the wipers. With manual wipers, you always need to manually turn on the wipers. I don't get how the auto wipers are worse. It's not like having auto wipers means you no longer have manual wipers. Other than maybe a Tesla where they took away the stalks, but just about every car I've had with auto wipers still had regular stalks with pretty regular wiper cont…

In a Tesla there is a clearly labelled dedicated button on the steering wheel to active wipers and the ability to change the speed with the thumb scroll wheel, I would argue it's easier to use than twisting the barrel of a stalk that you can't see and can be in different locations hidden behind the wheel

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#88

Post by SequoiaHope »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #63
yareal wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considerably more than five senses, actually. We rely on a huge variety of inputs beyond the basic ones when we drive.

Vision and hearing are the main senses we use to driving, and touch a distant third. Using taste, smell or proprioception means something is probably wrong with your vehicle.

I thought about smell but actually vehicles do malfunction, and smell can be an important indicator. “Something is wrong with your vehicle” is a real scenario that actually happens pretty often.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#89

Post by tempestn »

CGamesPlay wrote: post #54
tempestn wrote: post #48

There are other issues with Tesla's auto wipers. The main one is that, in other cars, you can have the wipers on auto, while still manually increasing or decreasing their speed. So if the wipers aren't going fast enough for you, you can bias the speed upward while maintaining the auto function, and vice-versa. On Teslas you don't have that option; you need to choose between auto and a fixed speed. (My guess is that t…

Completely ignoring the terrible UX of all of this, I can't imagine why someone would ever want to drive a car where path to access critical functionality changes so frequently.

Agreed. But I wanted an electric SUV with room for kids and dog and such, and the Model Y absolutely blew away competitors in 2021 in terms of space for people and cargo, in a reasonably sized vehicle. Still does to some extent; no one else has the small third row option, which is fantastic for driving kids' friends and such. Also the charging network was/is far superior to alternatives. So I was willing to put up with some Tesla nonsense for those advantages. Probably wouldn't make the same choice in 2024 though, as alternatives have improved, and Tesla's gotten weirder.

Re: Tesla Auto Wipers: Why They Don't Work and Why There Isn't an Easy Fix

#90

Post by heavyset_go »

dontreact wrote: post #4
pavel_lishin wrote: post #2

> This is a result of Tesla’s strategy to rely upon Tesla Vision to replace all sensors – which they’ve successfully used most recently to replace the ultrasonic parking sensors (USS) on their vehicles. Tesla believes that vision is the solution to achieving all self-driving capabilities, and this includes the elimination of extraneous sensors such as USS and radar. Why are they so hell-bent on using nothing but vide…

Elon’s belief that humans doing it with vision is proof it can be done with video

I think that's more of justification and excuse than a legitimate belief.
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