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Why did Tom Lehrer swap fame for obscurity?

theguardian.com

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Re: Why did Tom Lehrer swap fame for obscurity?

#81

I still have some Tom Lehrer songs in my playlist. They sound like they're a product of their time but are still relevant today. I am also amused that I learned "new math" in elementary school, but I think it's actually different from the "new math" in his song of that name. I didn't hate it, honestly. "Now the book wants you to do it in base 8." This is actually relevant to my day to day work. (Though in base 8, I h…

The song "New Math" is actually funny to listen to, I think most people don't pay attention to what's happening in it. In the first verse, he's mocking the idea of teaching kids the concept of borrowing, as if it's a bizarre and confusing concept that almost no one would understand. He was completely wrong, of course, and it's the way almost everyone - at least in the U.S. - does subtraction now. The "right" way that…

> The "right" way that he presents at the beginning of the song is a way that I've never encountered anyone doing. It's actually fairly interesting:

> "Three from 2 is 9, carry the one"; it seems to be a completely algorithmic way of doing the calculation, where you end up with the right answer at the end, but it's completely detached from what's actually happening.

I can't understand what you're trying to say. The only difference in the patter is whether you carry the one before or after you subtract 3 from 2. "Both" approaches have you do the same thing in the same way. What's the contrast?

Re: Why did Tom Lehrer swap fame for obscurity?

#82

I still have some Tom Lehrer songs in my playlist. They sound like they're a product of their time but are still relevant today. I am also amused that I learned "new math" in elementary school, but I think it's actually different from the "new math" in his song of that name. I didn't hate it, honestly. "Now the book wants you to do it in base 8." This is actually relevant to my day to day work. (Though in base 8, I h…

I love his Harvard fight song. So genteel! Impress them with your prowess, do. Hurl that spheroid down the field! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27PSHASlGUU He nails the Boston Brahmin accent so perfectly lol. And of course the elements song is a total banger. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2cfju6GTNs

> And of course the elements song is a total banger.

That's an odd one to mention; he has nothing to do with its musical qualities. He didn't compose it.

Re: Why did Tom Lehrer swap fame for obscurity?

#83
post #25

I still have some Tom Lehrer songs in my playlist. They sound like they're a product of their time but are still relevant today. I am also amused that I learned "new math" in elementary school, but I think it's actually different from the "new math" in his song of that name. I didn't hate it, honestly. "Now the book wants you to do it in base 8." This is actually relevant to my day to day work. (Though in base 8, I h…

New Math was a response to the Soviet lead in the space race. It was thought that introducing more abstract concepts, like different bases and set theory, would help kids grok math more. It was a fool's game. Just like every other "innovation" in mathematics education since, up to and including Common Core (one of which you probably encountered). At the elementary school level, the only way to increase math proficien…

Counterpoint: I was bought up before new math and completely bewildered by maths at school. As far as I could tell it was just a set of magical and arbitrary operations that I had to learn by heart, with no inkling as to what was going on. There was nothing there I could understand no framework my brain could hang things on and I completely failed.

New math sounds like it would have been idea for me.

Re: Why did Tom Lehrer swap fame for obscurity?

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I acknowledge the effort but this didn't quite land for me. Don't know the performer or the tv show; the lava lamp background was distracting.

He was Harry Potter in all the films, so I assume he's one of the best-known actors in the world.

Ah, thanks. I've not seen the movies or read the books.

Re: Why did Tom Lehrer swap fame for obscurity?

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lingering bitterness for the irresponsible New Math experiment in my elementary education. I couldn't tell time on an analog clock until I was 12, thanks to the blithe dismissal of "rote" multiplication tasks.

I’m fascinated - I’ve never thought of reading the time as a maths skill. How does it depend on learning multiplication? (non-American here, I may be lacking context that makes it obvious)

I guess the 5 times table for counting minutes?

Re: Why did Tom Lehrer swap fame for obscurity?

#86

I still have some Tom Lehrer songs in my playlist. They sound like they're a product of their time but are still relevant today. I am also amused that I learned "new math" in elementary school, but I think it's actually different from the "new math" in his song of that name. I didn't hate it, honestly. "Now the book wants you to do it in base 8." This is actually relevant to my day to day work. (Though in base 8, I h…

The song "New Math" is actually funny to listen to, I think most people don't pay attention to what's happening in it. In the first verse, he's mocking the idea of teaching kids the concept of borrowing, as if it's a bizarre and confusing concept that almost no one would understand. He was completely wrong, of course, and it's the way almost everyone - at least in the U.S. - does subtraction now. The "right" way that…

[deleted]

Re: Why did Tom Lehrer swap fame for obscurity?

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The song "New Math" is actually funny to listen to, I think most people don't pay attention to what's happening in it. In the first verse, he's mocking the idea of teaching kids the concept of borrowing, as if it's a bizarre and confusing concept that almost no one would understand. He was completely wrong, of course, and it's the way almost everyone - at least in the U.S. - does subtraction now. The "right" way that…

> The "right" way that he presents at the beginning of the song is a way that I've never encountered anyone doing. It's actually fairly interesting: > "Three from 2 is 9, carry the one"; it seems to be a completely algorithmic way of doing the calculation, where you end up with the right answer at the end, but it's completely detached from what's actually happening. I can't understand what you're trying to say. The o…

Yeah, ultimately it's the same algorithm, it's just a question of what are the details of the procedure, which makes it confusing if you've learned one way and not the other. The whole point of the song is that Lehrer thinks this is a new, less good way of doing subtraction.

Look at this video if you haven't already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIKGV2cTgqA

The first way he does it seems INCREDIBLY confusing to people who learned arithmetic in the last 30 or so years (the sentence "8 from 4 is 6" is nonsensical to most such people), but the "modern" way he's mocking is perfectly understandable.

I think the song is very funny and charming, but I do think this is a rare case where Lehrer is just wrong, the "borrowing" style is a much better and clearer way to explain subtraction. It is just as fast, and it gives you a much better intuition about what's actually happening, instead of just learning the steps by rote.

Re: Why did Tom Lehrer swap fame for obscurity?

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another Tom Lehrer interview clip (1994, age 65), http://www.crazycollege.org/lehrer.html GEO: I was surprised to learn that you enlisted in the Army back in 1955. TOM LEHRER: That's one way of putting it, but probably not the appropriate verb. The point is that they were drafting people up to the age of 35. So I dodged the draft for as long as anybody was shooting at anybody. And then when I realized that I would ha…

An interesting cross reference might be to Futurama, which apparently has a lot of math majors among the writers of the show: https://cs.appstate.edu/sjg/futurama/degrees.html

Also the writers famously created a mathematical theorem just for an episode of Futurama

https://theinfosphere.org/Futurama_theorem

Re: Why did Tom Lehrer swap fame for obscurity?

#89

What a fantastic quote.. > You had to admire these folk singers,” he says on the live LP. “It takes courage to get up in a coffee house or a student auditorium and come out in favour of the things everyone else is against, like peace and justice and brotherhood, and so on.” It's pretty much my reaction to every protest or social concern story in the media.

Part of the joke is that lots of people are against peace and justice and brotherhood in practice - often the majority.

I like that it is ambiguous. Something for everybody.

Re: Why did Tom Lehrer swap fame for obscurity?

#90
post #21

The article is nice and interesting but doesn't answer the question of why did Tom Lehrer stop. It's possible he thought he didn't have anything more to say. But I doubt that's the whole reason he stopped making songs and performing. He lived through a time when the US defeated Nazi Germany, and then... hired prominent Nazis to work for them. This is what the Wernher von Braun song is about. My take is, he thinks hum…

What do you mean by "the US defeated Nazi Germany"?

As I understand it the US was preoccupied with Japan until the USSR had Berlin within reach. US racial policy being an inspiration for european fascists, like Hitler, kind of makes the affiliation with nazis both in the US and West Germany (and NATO) easier to understand than the USSR keeping some nazis in important positions on their side.

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