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Scandal at America's top science fair

karlstack.com

81–90 of 229 posts

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#81

That's not only scientific fraud, it's real felony fraud. Maybe community service equivalent to 50,000.00 at federal minimum wage would sort him out.

The child is nothing to be blamed for, it is a 100% problem of the organizers. For a 17 years old, even throwing together such work is already an worthwhile result. Teens is a golden age of compilation and remixing.

> The child is nothing to be blamed for, it is a 100% problem of the organizers.

I am surprised that the organizers did not catch this, though I don't know enough to know how much time the organizers had.

> For a 17 years old, even throwing together such work is already an worthwhile result. Teens is a golden age of compilation and remixing.

For kids, in general, if one kid makes a claim ("I made this," or "This game cartridge is mine") that turns out to be false, there is generally some sort of comeuppance. That could be as simple as the kid losing respect within their peer group, or it could be as serious as parents being informed about the kid commiting a petty crime.

This is important, because it instills society's values (such as they are) in the child. For example, what if kid A steals a game cartridge from kid B, and then kid B retaliates by shooting and killing kid A? That response is generally frowned upon, in most parts of the world.

In my opinion, it would be fine if "the child" was presenting a poster showing the current state of research in microbial recycling of plastics. That's a cool thing for a high school senior or college freshman to do. But to take existing research (stealing), manipulate images (lying), and cast it as their own work (stealing and lying), on a national stage, that requires an appropriate comeuppance.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need lottery based admissions. Let schools set a minimum test score, and anyone over that goes into lottery for admissions. Kill off essays, extra curriculars, club sports, summer programs, AP tests, Legacy admits, early applications, and let kids have some life again.

Love where your head is at, but assuming we're talking about the united states, we literally just have enough money and resources to subsidize every kid who wants to attend college if we really wanted to. There are so many measurable long-term benefits to higher education both for the individual as well as the state that it's truly insane (to me any at least) with how unaccessible we've let it become.

We do have many good schools but unlike most places we also have extremely great schools. So while it's pretty easy to fund a good education for everyone, there's always going to be competition for the best.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#83
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need lottery based admissions. Let schools set a minimum test score, and anyone over that goes into lottery for admissions. Kill off essays, extra curriculars, club sports, summer programs, AP tests, Legacy admits, early applications, and let kids have some life again.

I recommend some type of testing. Even subject specific. And for most desirable institutions just outright auction for certain amount of spots. Let the rich bid for spot and the money spend to subsidise others.

> "Let the rich bid for spot and the money spend to subsidise others."

this is called international students

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#84
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, many cultures don't see honesty as a value on its own. In Polish there's a word "frajer" which is an offensive term for someone who got cheated or didn't take advantage of a situation. The logic is that, if the society as a whole is dishonest, then it doesn't make sense to be a martyr recognized by no-one, and it's better to make sure you take care of yourself first.

Fun fact: that's actually a Yiddish word: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/frajer English translation: dope, sucker. As in there's a sucker born every minute : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_sucker_born_every_...

Fun fact: according to the etymology I could find online it's actually originally a German word (meaning client of a prostitute) that was borrowed by Yiddish, then borrowed in turn by Polish from Yiddish and also ended up in a couple of other European languages.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#85
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, many cultures don't see honesty as a value on its own. In Polish there's a word "frajer" which is an offensive term for someone who got cheated or didn't take advantage of a situation. The logic is that, if the society as a whole is dishonest, then it doesn't make sense to be a martyr recognized by no-one, and it's better to make sure you take care of yourself first.

Fun fact: that's actually a Yiddish word: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/frajer English translation: dope, sucker. As in there's a sucker born every minute : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_sucker_born_every_...

Similar word also exists in standard German, where it originally meant "f*cker" but now just means a man who buys services from a prostitute.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#86

>Everyone makes mistakes — Lord knows I did plenty of stupid, immoral things when I was 17 — and there is always the opportunity for growth and redemption. when did the definition of 'mistake' change to encompass actions done on purpose? a mistake is when your data is invalid because you did the math wrong, not when all your data is simultaneously false and plagiarized. i don't mean to disagree with the notion that h…

The definition of mistake has always included actions done on purpose. Consider the sentences:

Getting on that Boeing jet was a huge mistake.

The worst mistake I ever made was voting for Trump.

Having an intern give him a blowjob was the biggest mistake of Clinton's career.

In all of those cases the action was done on purpose. You are confusing the definition of mistake with the phrase "by mistake", i.e. "I ran rm -rf by mistake", which means unintentionally.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#87
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, many cultures don't see honesty as a value on its own. In Polish there's a word "frajer" which is an offensive term for someone who got cheated or didn't take advantage of a situation. The logic is that, if the society as a whole is dishonest, then it doesn't make sense to be a martyr recognized by no-one, and it's better to make sure you take care of yourself first.

Fun fact: that's actually a Yiddish word: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/frajer English translation: dope, sucker. As in there's a sucker born every minute : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_sucker_born_every_...

Also, 'chutzpah' which has a sense of being proud of trying to get away with it, unashamed.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#89
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was a stark contrast between those of us who had designed our projects completely ourselves, and those who had significant mentors/lab affiliations. Said with kindness and discretion. Parental "help", e.g. doing most or all of the work for a science fair entry, is an open secret among Asian communities. It has been for decades. I know firsthand that many Chinese-born parents don't even view it as at all wrong…

Unfortunately, many cultures don't see honesty as a value on its own. In Polish there's a word "frajer" which is an offensive term for someone who got cheated or didn't take advantage of a situation. The logic is that, if the society as a whole is dishonest, then it doesn't make sense to be a martyr recognized by no-one, and it's better to make sure you take care of yourself first.

Unfortunately very similar to Uruguay, where I grew up. One of the many reasons I haven't lived there for a while now :(

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#90

>Everyone makes mistakes — Lord knows I did plenty of stupid, immoral things when I was 17 — and there is always the opportunity for growth and redemption. when did the definition of 'mistake' change to encompass actions done on purpose? a mistake is when your data is invalid because you did the math wrong, not when all your data is simultaneously false and plagiarized. i don't mean to disagree with the notion that h…

I think it features in the song “we are the champions,” so before 1977. I think “I’ve made mistakes/people make mistakes” has been used to euphemistically describe a lapse of judgement for a really long time.

Or even better, the passive form, "mistakes have been made" :)
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