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GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

nian.llmonpy.ai

81–90 of 256 posts

Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#81
I just used it to compare two smaller legal documents and it completely hallucinated that items were present in one and not the other. It did this on three discrete sections of the agreements.

Using ctrl-f I was able to see that they were identical in one another.

Obviously this is a single sample but saying 90% seems unlikely. They were around ~80k tokens total.

Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#82
post #77
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can't answer the questions without the limericks in the prompt. The benchmark is to establish how well it uses the context window. For example, I just asked it "What is sought by the English top brass?". The answer from the limerick is "Cranberry glass" and 4o answers correctly when given the associated limerick once out of 2500+ limericks. However, without the limerick, 4o responded with: "The term "English top b…

Maybe if you tell it to pull the answer from a limerick instead of generally asking? Edit: Ok no, I tried giving it a whole bunch of hints, and it was just making stuff up that was completely unrelated. Even directly pointing it at the original dataset didn’t help.

Come on guys, it’s already far beyond superhuman if it’s able to do that and so quickly. So if it’s not able to do that, what’s the big deal? If you’re asking for AG.I., then it seems that the model performs beyond it in these areas.

Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#83

Increasingly convinced that nobody on the public internet knows how to do actual LLM evaluations.

I'm just glad that we are finally past the "Who was the 29th president of the United States" and "Draw something in the style of Van Gogh" LLM evaluation test everyone did in 2022-2023.

Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#84
post #54
post #4

I'd like to see this for Gemini Pro 1.5 -- I threw the entirety of Moby Dick at it last week, and at one point all books Byung Chul-Han has ever published, and it both cases it was able to return the single part of a sentence that mentioned or answered my question verbatim, every single time, without any hallucinations.

A number of people in my lab do research into long context evaluation of LLMs for works of fiction. The likelihood is very high that Moby Dick is in the training data. Instead the people in my lab have explored recently published books to avoid these issues. See BooookScore ( https://openreview.net/forum?id=7Ttk3RzDeu ) which was just presented at ICLR last week and FABLES ( https://arxiv.org/abs/2404.01261 ) a recen…

I suppose the question then is - if you finetune on your own data (eg internal wiki) does it then retain the near-perfect recall?

Could be a simpler setup than RAG for slow-changing documentation, especially for read-heavy cases.

Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#85
post #43

The needle in the haystack test gives a very limited view of the model’s actual long context capabilities. It’s mostly used because early models were terrible at it and it’s easy to test. In fact, most recent models now do pretty good at this one task, but in practice, their ability to do anything complex drops off hugely after 32K tokens. RULER is a much better test: https://github.com/hsiehjackson/RULER > Despite a…

Maybe, but

1. The article is not about NIHS it’s their own variation so it could be more relevant.

2. The whole claim of the article is that Gpt4o does better, but the test your pointing to hasn’t benchmarked it.

Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#86
I think large language models can be used to classify people, lying, or saying, rehearsed, things or being disingenuous. Simply train them on a lot of audio of people talking, and they would become better than most polygraph machines. There’s something about how a person says something that quickly reveals that it was rehearsed earlier, or premeditated, and I’m sure when they’re lying there can be things like that too. the LLM can instantly pick up with some probability and classify it

I’ve seen claims during open AI demo that is there software can now pick up on extremely subtle emotional clues, how people speak. Then, it shouldn’t take much more to make it read between the lines and understand what people are intending to say, for example, by enumerating all possible interpretations and scoring them based on, many factors, including the current time, location, etc. In fact, by taking into account so much context in factors, the LLM‘s will be better than people the vast majority of the time understanding what a person meant, assuming they were genuinely trying to communicate something.

it will become very hard to lie because everyone’s personal LLM will pick up on it fairly quickly, and find tons of inconsistencies, which it will flag for you later. You will no longer be fooled so easily, and if it has the context of everything the person has said publicly, plus if the person gives permission for your LLM to scan everything they’ve said privately because you’re their Business partner or sexual partner, it can easily catch you in many lies and so on.

I predict that in the next 5 to 10 years, human society will completely change as people start to prefer machines to other people, because they understand them so well, and taken into account, the context of everything they’ve ever said. They will be thoughtful, remembering details about the person in many different dimensions, and use them to personalize everything. By contrast, the most thoughtful husband or boyfriend will seem like, a jerk seems now. Or a cat.

Humor and seductive conversation, will also be at a superhuman standards. People will obviously up their game too, just like when they do when playing the game go after Lee Sedol was totally destroyed by Alpha go, or when people start using Alpha Zarro to train for Chess. However, once the computers understand what triggers people to laugh or have sexual response, they will be able to trigger them a lot more predictively, they simply need more training data.

And bullshitting will be done on a completely different level. Just like people no longer walk to destinations but use cars to go thousands of miles a year, similarly people won’t interact with other people so much anymore. The LLM’s, trained to bullshit 1000 times better than any human, Will be undetectable and gradually shift public opinion as open source models will power swarms of accounts.

Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#87
post #78
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A number of people in my lab do research into long context evaluation of LLMs for works of fiction. The likelihood is very high that Moby Dick is in the training data. Instead the people in my lab have explored recently published books to avoid these issues. See BooookScore ( https://openreview.net/forum?id=7Ttk3RzDeu ) which was just presented at ICLR last week and FABLES ( https://arxiv.org/abs/2404.01261 ) a recen…

I’m not involved in the space, but it seems to me that having a model, in particular a massive model, exposed to a corpus of text like a book in the training data would have very minimal impact. I’m aware that people have been able to return data ‘out of the shadows’ pf the training data but to my mind a model being mildly influenced by the weights between different words in this text hardly constitute hard recall, i…

It depends on how many times it had seen that text during training. For example, GPT-4 can reproduce ayats from the Quran word for word in both Arabic and English. It can also reproduce the Navy SEAL copypasta complete with all the typos.

Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#88

Someone needs to come up with a "synthesis from haystack" test that tests not just retrieval but depth of understanding, connections, abstractions across diverse information. When a person reads a book, they have an "overall intuition" about it. We need some way to quantify this. Needle in haystack tests feel like a simple test that doesn't go far enough.

I wonder if there is some way to have an AI help humans improve their "reading comprehension" aka reasoning across a large body of text. As far as I can tell the only way to do this is to cut out mindless scrolling and force yourself to read a lot of books in the hopes that this skill might be improved.

I am many years out of my grade school years where I was required to read a multitude of novels every year and I guess years of mindless reddit scrolling + focusing on nothing but mathematics and the sciences in college have taken their toll: I read long articles or books but completely miss the deeper meaning.

As an example: my nerd like obsession with random topics of the decade before I was born (until I get bored) caused me to read numerous articles and all of Wikipedia + sources on the RBMK reactors and Chernobyl nuclear accident as well as the stories of the people involved.

But it wasn't until I sat down and watched that famous HBO mini seres that I finally connected the dots of how the lies and secretive nature of the soviet system led to the design flaws in the reactor, and the subsequent suicide of Valery Legasov helped finally expose them to the world where they could no longer be hidden.

Its like I knew of all these events and people separately but could not connect them together to form a deep realization and when I saw it acted out on screen it all finally hit me like a ton of bricks. How had I not seen it?

Hoping one day AI can just scan my existing brain structure and recommend activities to change the neuronal makeup to what I want it to be. Or even better since im a lazy developer, it should just do it for me.

Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#89
post #87
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not involved in the space, but it seems to me that having a model, in particular a massive model, exposed to a corpus of text like a book in the training data would have very minimal impact. I’m aware that people have been able to return data ‘out of the shadows’ pf the training data but to my mind a model being mildly influenced by the weights between different words in this text hardly constitute hard recall, i…

It depends on how many times it had seen that text during training. For example, GPT-4 can reproduce ayats from the Quran word for word in both Arabic and English. It can also reproduce the Navy SEAL copypasta complete with all the typos.

Brothers in username.. :-)

Re: GPT-4o's Memory Breakthrough – Needle in a Needlestack

#90
post #13
post #11

You need to know that this test set data wasn't included in the training data for this to be meaningful.

If you ask the questions without providing the limerick first, it never gets the right answer. When the LLM gets the wrong answer, it is usually because it reverts to its training data and gives a generic answer that doesn't apply to the limerick.

Why are you ruling out the possibility that training on the material may confer an advantage when the data is presented, even if the advantage may not be strong enough to pass the test without the data present in the context window?
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