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Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

theguardian.com

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Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#81

Post by avip »

brabel wrote: post #51
afavour wrote: post #15

I’m not sure about “dark day for the media” but it does feel like a dark day for Israel. Once you’ve established that the government can unilaterally ban a voice for reasons of “national security” you’ve essentially given them a free pass. As Americans living post-9/11 will know, “national security” is a deliberately elastic term that can cover anything required in the moment.

The EU has banned many Russian and Belarussian news sources since the invasion of Ukraine. The USA seems to not have followed through (as far as I know - as Russian news sites seem to be available).

Al-Jazeera propaganda/free press sites are also available in Israel

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#82

Post by jeffbee »

nkurz wrote: post #18

How much precedent is there for this? Are there parallels for other countries? Does the US prohibit any news agencies from operating in our borders? Does Europe? Does Russia? Does China? I presume North Korea does, but I don't actually know. These aren't designed to be leading questions. I don't know the answers, and rather than searching, I figured someone else here might know offhand.

The United States right of free speech is uniquely strong. That's why we're all just sitting here acting completely blase about bad faith propaganda destroying us.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#83

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

brabel wrote: post #55
_Microft wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's neither surprising nor necessarily bad. Just think of how Russia Today was spreading disinformation and propaganda about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Banning them from the EU was certainly in our interest.

It's disinformation according to the Government though, which is the same thing happening here with Israel, isn't it? Do you believe Al Jazeera is spreading misinformation? Even if Israel says so? Even if the USA starts saying so as well? I don't know where we can draw a line here.

It's possible to make a fair judgement about what a government is doing, and in many places people trust their government and accept their actions.

But it's notable that the Israeli government refuses to submit itself to an election, especially in the face of widespread popular demands.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#84

Post by loceng »

dakom wrote: post #69

[flagged]

I would argue that's an apples to oranges comparison.

Since by international law definition Gaza is an occupied territory, for one, and it's perhaps one of the most disproportionate "conflicts" in modern history.

Re: journalistic integrity - I thought the idea with investigative journalism is allow people to speak freely - and then let the individual determine how truthful the source is based on a multitude of factors? Couldn't you also argue the 4th most powerful military, and arguably best funded and most sophisticated militaries, will be the most effective at generating and distributing propaganda?

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#85

Post by NewJazz »

user982 wrote: post #70
verdverm wrote: post #8

Reporters Without Borders gathers data and produces some interesting graphics. They recently released their World Press Freedom Index https://rsf.org/en https://rsf.org/en/country/israel --- edit: they appear to keep a list of mirrored news sites to circumvent censorship https://github.com/RSF-RWB/collateralfreedom (was hoping they had data available for their index, but have not found it yet) --- edit: the index has…

I don't know how to interpret the front page saying "More than 100 journalists killed in six months in Gaza" directly above a "real time" abuse barometer saying that 12 journalists have been killed worldwide in 2024.

There hasn't been six months in 2024 yet, for one. Many of the deaths could have been in Nov and Dec.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#86

Post by verdverm »

user982 wrote: post #70
verdverm wrote: post #8

Reporters Without Borders gathers data and produces some interesting graphics. They recently released their World Press Freedom Index https://rsf.org/en https://rsf.org/en/country/israel --- edit: they appear to keep a list of mirrored news sites to circumvent censorship https://github.com/RSF-RWB/collateralfreedom (was hoping they had data available for their index, but have not found it yet) --- edit: the index has…

I don't know how to interpret the front page saying "More than 100 journalists killed in six months in Gaza" directly above a "real time" abuse barometer saying that 12 journalists have been killed worldwide in 2024.

Different (overlapping) time spans

Probably different measuring / classifications at play too. For example, they may be including independent journalists in one set vs only recognized outlets in another.

---

edit, they have the following note in the barometer

> Journalists are listed only if RSF has established that their death or imprisonment was linked to their journalistic activity. The list does not include journalists who were killed or imprisoned for reasons unrelated to their work or when the link to their work has not yet been confirmed.

https://rsf.org/en/barometer?type%5Btue%5D=tue&annee_start=2....

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#87

Post by TheGuyWhoCodes »

brabel wrote: post #55
_Microft wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's neither surprising nor necessarily bad. Just think of how Russia Today was spreading disinformation and propaganda about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Banning them from the EU was certainly in our interest.

It's disinformation according to the Government though, which is the same thing happening here with Israel, isn't it? Do you believe Al Jazeera is spreading misinformation? Even if Israel says so? Even if the USA starts saying so as well? I don't know where we can draw a line here.

We can draw the line when they report proven false information and never apologize for reporting so.

We can draw the line when they say one thing on English Al Jazeera and another on Arabic Al Jazeera.

We can draw the line when their reporters were (since then eliminated) active member of Hamas rocket teams.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#88

Post by mongol »

bottlepalm wrote: post #11

Is there anyone else who doesn't support either side of this conflict? They've been fighting each other for over 100 years. They both want the same piece of land. It's on them to figure it out. People around the world don't need to 'pick a side'. We can protest for both sides to sort their shit out, and not drag the rest of us into it.

I think it is not the kind of conflict where you pick a side. There are legitimate and illegitimate claims on both sides. As a bystander I try to evaluate specific actions, not choose a favorite.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#90

Post by loceng »

brabel wrote: post #51
afavour wrote: post #15

I’m not sure about “dark day for the media” but it does feel like a dark day for Israel. Once you’ve established that the government can unilaterally ban a voice for reasons of “national security” you’ve essentially given them a free pass. As Americans living post-9/11 will know, “national security” is a deliberately elastic term that can cover anything required in the moment.

The EU has banned many Russian and Belarussian news sources since the invasion of Ukraine. The USA seems to not have followed through (as far as I know - as Russian news sites seem to be available).

Censorship occurs on most of the major platforms, targeting specific topics or phrases, instead of outright banning channels; arguably to be as discrete as possible and not spook the herd, and where Twitter-X is going to allow the most information to flow - arguable more lies, but arguably also more truth.
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