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All Cars Sold in the US Will Soon Have to Be Able to Automatically Avoid a Crash

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Re: All Cars Sold in the US Will Soon Have to Be Able to Automatically Avoid a Crash

#81

Post by acdha »

gpm wrote: post #66
acdha wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I’m really skeptical just because at that speed human reaction times are so limited. It seems like the guys who said they should have to pay for seatbelts because if they crashed into a lake it might be hard to get out without drowning - true at least once, somewhere, but orders of magnitude less common than the times where a seatbelt kept someone alive.

In lots of situations speed doesn't really limit how much time you have to react, because it's something like "someone is merging into you without noticing you" or "you and someone on the other side of an empty lane both started to merge into it". But ya, the statistical argument of how often does accelerating out really help, vs. often is someone driving too fast the cause of the danger, seems very relevant.

I was thinking of the only time in 3 decades of driving where speeding up made sense: I was on the 405 in LA and I was behind some guy who had a stack of mattresses poorly tied onto the back of a pickup truck. The top one flew surprisingly high up and I realized that the way it had caught the wind meant that if I braked it would land pretty close to me, so I went under instead and it landed a few car lengths behind me. At 45mph, in my early 20s, driving a sporty car that worked out but at 90mph I don’t think I’d have had time to process it quickly enough. I also note that this was once a long time ago where as I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve been endangered by someone going much too fast or seen the aftermath (cars in buildings, upside down on the wrong side, etc.) so I would in a heartbeat take a world where the extreme speed outliers are gone.

Re: All Cars Sold in the US Will Soon Have to Be Able to Automatically Avoid a Crash

#82

Post by tharkun__ »

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #80
tharkun__ wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curves to slow down? Sorry but a bunch of curves don't make you drive slower than the 100km/h / 65mph / 70mph speed limit. Germany's Autobahn has many many curves and many of those have no speed limit and you can take them easily at 150+ km/h. Seriously, buy a plane ticket and try it for yourself. It's awesome. Stop signs are aggravating if people had to actually stop 'properly' at every single one. No wonder people…

Street design can and does affect how fast people drive. It's weird that you are arguing that it doesn't.

I'm not arguing that street design can't affect how fast people drive.

I'm saying "some curves" like the parent said won't do that magically all by itself.

And yes, I am very much arguing that putting a speed bump at the beginning of a 1 mile road will not do anything for at least 0.9 miles of that road. That's my point about "very locally". Anyone that argues differently I would call weird.

It's also funny how many things are super local. We already see people here argue about 85 or 90 with regards to Texas roads. Here in my neck of the woods they actually are gonna go from 100 to 110 km/h in some places and the radio was arguing how they can't imagine going that fast etc. Well guess what, the Autobahn is full of people going ~140 km/h (which is right smack middle between 85 and 90 mph actually) and it's absolutely normal and fine and if you go 140 and stay on the left lane people will honk at you to let them pass. One thing that comes with the Autobahn is that you always have to drive on the right-most lane available and no passing on the right is allowed. That would be insane at the allowed speeds (which in many places is unlimited).

Road traffic fatalities 2020:

    Canada 1,745 for ~35 million people
    Germany 2,562 for ~85 million people
    US 39,007 for ~332 million people
Looks like Germany, with its unlimited speeds and no 4-way stop in sight is at ~30 deaths per million, while here it's ~50 and the US is at a whopping 117.5.

Re: All Cars Sold in the US Will Soon Have to Be Able to Automatically Avoid a Crash

#83

Post by seoulmetro »

tryptophan wrote: post #8

Laws to make cars smaller and drive slower will do 100x more to make crashes less deadly than fancy electronic gizmos. Not to mention all these electronics make the car much more expensive and harder to repair.

Cars smaller: Good

Cars slower: Not Good

You don't need slower cars. Just efficient at X, Y, Z average speeds.

Cars are mostly getting bigger due to safety regulations though. The interiors are smaller than ever but the exteriors get bigger and bigger. The gap is being filled with crumple zones and airbags.

Re: All Cars Sold in the US Will Soon Have to Be Able to Automatically Avoid a Crash

#84

Post by seoulmetro »

parl_match wrote: post #44
dogman144 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

… empty and well paved country roads are a thing

Most vehicles (and most drivers) aren't capable of safely driving at 90mph, no matter how "empty" the road is.

No, most vehicles are more than capable of this. The drivers are not.

Re: All Cars Sold in the US Will Soon Have to Be Able to Automatically Avoid a Crash

#85

Post by huhuhu111 »

acdha wrote: post #58
huhuhu111 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are a few reasons though, like life threatening emergencies when the road is basically empty

How many situations are there where going over 90mph is make or break? Unless you’re Keanu Reeves driving a bus improbably, that seems like a freakishly rare situation compared to the number of crashes caused by people incorrectly thinking they could safely drive that speed – and with so much energy involved, those are usually fatal.

on many highways, it doesn't feel that fast in at least parts of America because the lanes are so wide... specially in a car (I went much faster on motorcycles)

Re: All Cars Sold in the US Will Soon Have to Be Able to Automatically Avoid a Crash

#86

Post by huhuhu111 »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #63
parl_match wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most vehicles on the road can't really be safely operated at 90mph, especially by the layperson, no matter the need.

If you have a turbocharged v4 I a light vehicle it’s pretty dang easy to drive 100+ mph. If you’re paying attention, the road conditions are good, and you’re not aggressively tailgating or passing people, it’s relatively safe. The problem is it doesn’t take much to become unsafe and physics is not very forgiving of bad judgement.

tailgating at 100mph? I don't think that's what it's called... probably "reckless driving" or "aggressive driving" if you need to pass cars dangerously

Re: All Cars Sold in the US Will Soon Have to Be Able to Automatically Avoid a Crash

#87

Post by acdha »

huhuhu111 wrote: post #85
acdha wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many situations are there where going over 90mph is make or break? Unless you’re Keanu Reeves driving a bus improbably, that seems like a freakishly rare situation compared to the number of crashes caused by people incorrectly thinking they could safely drive that speed – and with so much energy involved, those are usually fatal.

on many highways, it doesn't feel that fast in at least parts of America because the lanes are so wide... specially in a car (I went much faster on motorcycles)

I know, but specifically what is this emergency situation where being able to go 120 is enough but 90 is not? I’ve spent plenty of time on fast freeways and even the ambulance drivers are rarely going that fast because it’s unsafe.

Re: All Cars Sold in the US Will Soon Have to Be Able to Automatically Avoid a Crash

#88

Post by m463 »

tharkun__ wrote: post #82
Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Street design can and does affect how fast people drive. It's weird that you are arguing that it doesn't.

I'm not arguing that street design can't affect how fast people drive. I'm saying "some curves" like the parent said won't do that magically all by itself. And yes, I am very much arguing that putting a speed bump at the beginning of a 1 mile road will not do anything for at least 0.9 miles of that road. That's my point about "very locally". Anyone that argues differently I would call weird. It's also funny how many…

Having driven the autobahn, my theory is nobody has time to die - just a moment and they're already at their destination.

That said, I think the autobahn has pretty good engineering. None of the potholes and ripped up roads from road crews.

And none of the entitlement.

If two people want to speed, one going 70 in a 65, and one wanting to go 90 in a 65, they both are annoyed because they feel entitled to go that speed.

On the autobahn, if someone wants to go faster than you, he is allowed so you have to get out of the way, that's the rule.

Re: All Cars Sold in the US Will Soon Have to Be Able to Automatically Avoid a Crash

#89

Post by huhuhu111 »

acdha wrote: post #87
huhuhu111 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

on many highways, it doesn't feel that fast in at least parts of America because the lanes are so wide... specially in a car (I went much faster on motorcycles)

I know, but specifically what is this emergency situation where being able to go 120 is enough but 90 is not? I’ve spent plenty of time on fast freeways and even the ambulance drivers are rarely going that fast because it’s unsafe.

it's pretty rare, so hopefully you should not get a speeding ticket for it because you would go to jail and that emergency would not matter.

Re: All Cars Sold in the US Will Soon Have to Be Able to Automatically Avoid a Crash

#90

Post by tharkun__ »

m463 wrote: post #88
tharkun__ wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing that street design can't affect how fast people drive. I'm saying "some curves" like the parent said won't do that magically all by itself. And yes, I am very much arguing that putting a speed bump at the beginning of a 1 mile road will not do anything for at least 0.9 miles of that road. That's my point about "very locally". Anyone that argues differently I would call weird. It's also funny how many…

Having driven the autobahn, my theory is nobody has time to die - just a moment and they're already at their destination. That said, I think the autobahn has pretty good engineering. None of the potholes and ripped up roads from road crews. And none of the entitlement. If two people want to speed, one going 70 in a 65, and one wanting to go 90 in a 65, they both are annoyed because they feel entitled to go that speed…

Hehe.

I think the curves are actually part of it. But the other way around. The Autobahn in most places actually on purpose follows the landscape and has lots of curves going left and right. Not to slow people down but to keep people 'awake'.

Nothing is more boring than going in a straight line for 8 hours at a fixed 100km/h / 65 mph. The closest I personally have been to a traffic fatality was in Florida doing exactly this. So effing boring!

The most alert I have been is on the Autobahn going anywhere between 100km/h and 180km/h up and down through the hills around Kassel, going left and right. Having to slow down because someone is going "only 140km/h" on the left lane in front of you. Speeding back up. Going in a nice "tight" right turn up the hill while flooring it in 6th gear.

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