Do they say what they replaced Rust with? I scanned through a few times and couldn't figure it out.
I assume from comments like "This is actually the #1 reason we're moving back to Unity" they're back in C# using unity
Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
81–90 of 996 posts
Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
#82This is a very brave post to write given how incendiary responses to rust criticism can be, but this matches my experience entirely.
I think I just read about 10 versions of this comment on this page, and definitely not a single response to the criticism that could be described as incendiary. I don't think I even saw a single comment just now that fundamentally pushed back on the premise of this article, let alone in an incendiary way. It's early yet, and maybe this thread will look very different in a few hours though?
The author maybe somewhat hit on the reason for this in the article, where they mentioned that they're already seeing some of the rabid, toxic, Rust proponents already moving onto the next "hot" thing and doing their thing there. So maybe after a few years of Rust we've arrived at the turning point now where enough of those types of people have finally moved on and the Rust community has significantly changed.
Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
#83> The problem you're having is only a problem because you haven't tried hard enough. You just need to read another 50,000 word fasterthanlime essay. Then you'll not have problems any more. > That being said, there is an overwhelming force in the Rust community that when anyone mentions they're having problems with Rust the language on a fundamental level, the answer is "you just don't get it yet, I promise once you g…
Parts of the Rust community are toxic indeed, but I've been around long enough to recognize the same pattern in communities of other hot programming languages or frameworks in their up-and-coming phase. There's something about the new hot language/framework/paradigm that always attracts the type of people who wrap their identity up in the hot new thing. They take any criticisms of their new favorite thing as criticis…
unrelated: the word "toxic" is meaningless nowadays e.g., "dunking on noobs" is more specific.
Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Unity is so good and quite affordable, basically there’s zero upfront risk of using it. Other than the absurd license changing shenanigans they tried to shove through recently. Hopefully they learned their lesson.
Unity learned that they have to turn the temperature up slower. They kept the new license that everyone was mad about but just made it so you can keep your current license if it's cheaper for you. No doubt they'll be tweaking these values over time.
Yeah, that's definitely a concern I have. Well, projected concern I guess, I'm using Godot myself rather than Unity, mostly because I found Unity way more confusing when I tried to learn it. But not needing to worry about licensing with Godot is certainly a nice bonus.
Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
#85> Making a fun & interesting games is about rapid prototyping and iteration, Rust's values are everything but that I found this to be true of C after many, many years coding in C. I noticed that the first selection of data layout stayed throughout the life of the code (with a lot of tweaks, additions, etc.). But didn't really think that much about it. Until I started writing code in D. It was easy to change the data…
When ever I watch someone coding C(++) all they do is compile and then add remove * and & or change between -> and . when the compiler complains.
Multiply that by all the C(++) coders on the planet and we have lost a billion man hours...
Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
#86> As far as a game is concerned, there is only one audio system, one input system, one physics world, one deltaTime, one renderer, one asset loader.
I thought this way when I was doing Java dev around 10 years ago. I thought it excused the singleton pattern. I was wrong!
You should always be able to construct an object by explicitly passing dependencies to it. Especially for testing.
It really is no fun if your renderer starts talking to your asset loader and timer directly.
Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
#87&str vs String. Oh boy.
Yeah, if std::string vs std::string_view is "a major hurdle"... I don't know what so say
Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
#88> Rust gamedev ecosystem lives on hype I've been saying this for years. I've tried to get into Rust multiple times the past few years and one of the things I've tried was gamedev with Rust (specifically the library ggez when it was still being worked on, and a little bit of Bevy). I admittedly never got far, but I gave it a solid shot. My experience was instantly terrible. Slow compile times and iterations, huge pack…
Just a small addition: Godot also has great C# support. It is a real charm to work with.
Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
#89> The problem you're having is only a problem because you haven't tried hard enough. You just need to read another 50,000 word fasterthanlime essay. Then you'll not have problems any more. > That being said, there is an overwhelming force in the Rust community that when anyone mentions they're having problems with Rust the language on a fundamental level, the answer is "you just don't get it yet, I promise once you g…
Parts of the Rust community are toxic indeed, but I've been around long enough to recognize the same pattern in communities of other hot programming languages or frameworks in their up-and-coming phase. There's something about the new hot language/framework/paradigm that always attracts the type of people who wrap their identity up in the hot new thing. They take any criticisms of their new favorite thing as criticis…
> Parts of the Rust community are toxic indeed, but I've been around long enough to recognize the same pattern in communities of other hot programming languages or frameworks in their up-and-coming phase.
I would say that in general, this type of attitude permeates a lot of software engineering, and even engineering and science as a whole. When I speak with people in other fields, particularly more creative ones, the discussions are so much more improvisational and flowing. Discussions with software developers, engineers, and scientists have this very jerky, start and stop "flow" to them as you meet resistance at each step. I honest to god have had people telling me no or shaking their head no before I ever finished my question or statement, much less before they even understood it.
> There's something about the new hot language/framework/paradigm that always attracts the type of people who wrap their identity up in the hot new thing. They take any criticisms of their new favorite thing as criticisms against themselves, and respond defensively.
You're spot on about the coupling of someone's identity with it. Rust especially seems to also have this never-ending gold rush to be the next framework and library everyone uses, which creates a very competitive landscape. And it seems most frameworks and libraries get 80% of the way and then fizzle out once people realize Rust isn't a magical language that solves all your problems.
Re: Leaving Rust gamedev after 3 years
#90I would love to be able to bypass the orphan rule for internal crates.
I would love to make it possible to bypass the orphan rule in general, including for crates published on crates.io. This is an important issue for ecosystem scaling, in many different ways.
It means that if you have a library A providing a trait and a library B providing a type, either A has to add optional support for B or B has to add optional support for A, or someone has to hack around that with a newtype wrapper. Usually, whichever library is less popular ends up adding optional support for the more popular library. This is, for instance, one reason why it's really really hard to write a replacement for serde: you'd have to get every crate currently providing optional serde support to provide optional support for your library as well.
In other ecosystems, you'd either add quick-and-dirty support in your application, or you'd write (and perhaps publish) an A-B crate that implements support for using A and B together. This should be possible in Rust.