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Redis is forked

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Re: Redis is forked

#81

Post by jedmeyers »

hnthrowaway6543 wrote: post #4

Generally my stance with these forks born from community drama is "wait and see." Sometimes the fork will gain traction and become the de facto "true" version (see Hudson -> Jenkins). Sometimes the fork will flop and people will largely stick to the original despite whatever caused the schism (see Terraform -> OpenTofu). Many of these recent forks are being done because people won't want AWS/GCP/Azure to slap a UI on…

What AWS/GCP/Azure provide with managed Redis is much much more than just a UI. There are a lot of technical issues that come with running Redis reliably in the cloud. I’d say UI work is probably 5% of that at most.

Re: Redis is forked

#82

Post by dimitrios1 »

cube2222 wrote: post #41
hnthrowaway6543 wrote: post #4

Generally my stance with these forks born from community drama is "wait and see." Sometimes the fork will gain traction and become the de facto "true" version (see Hudson -> Jenkins). Sometimes the fork will flop and people will largely stick to the original despite whatever caused the schism (see Terraform -> OpenTofu). Many of these recent forks are being done because people won't want AWS/GCP/Azure to slap a UI on…

Hey, tech lead of OpenTofu here! I might be in a bubble of course, but from what I've seen, I've been positively surprised by the uptake of OpenTofu so far! I do also expect OpenTofu 1.7 to be more interesting for people to migrate to, as it'll include a bunch of OpenTofu-exclusives.

I work for a large enterprise and we use terraform open source atm, but I can pretty much guarantee we move to OpenTofu once the dust settles a little more.

Re: Redis is forked

#83

Post by mattnewton »

eatonphil wrote: post #35

Why, unlike Redis and Elasticsearch and Terraform, was there no big community fork of MongoDB when it was relicensed? Cockroach, Materialize, and MariaDB were all also relicensed without massive backlash, I think. But I think that's because they had fewer users at the time. But Mongo's was the one relicense event that didn't produce so much shock that a new fork came out of it. And Mongo's stock is doing great, if th…

Anecdotal but the perception in my corner around the time of the license switch was that Postgres was good enough now with bjson columns, and we could just use that for new projects. Projects that needed to scale beyond what is easy with Postgres are fairly rare and usually mean you’re doing well enough to throw money at citus or whoever to prevent everything from melting.

Re: Redis is forked

#84

Post by Rapzid »

My prediction is that Valkey will be the dominant "fork" moving forward. I don't believe the Redict team's prioritization on their niche values is going to resonate well with businesses that are going to end up both using and contributing to development in this space..

However I think the RESP is going to become even more of a standard protocol that many viable implementations support moving forward. Microsoft is working on Garnet, and I can imagine other major cloud providers having their own implementations or forks at least.

Re: Redis is forked

#85

Post by kbenson »

laurent123456 wrote: post #15

If AWS and other cloud providers gave if only 0.1% of the profit they generate out of these open source projects back to the developers we probably wouldn't have this problem. Unfortunately they don't and it's only fair that eventually those developers take it in their own hands. It's not a great situation but it's certainly understandable.

> Unfortunately they don't and it's only fair that eventually those developers take it in their own hands.

"Fair" is somewhat loaded. The developers certainly have a right to change their product and charge for it, but it's not nearly as cut and dry in my opinion. How many contributions were made because of the completely open nature of the product? Is it "fair" to those people that the controllers of the project want to change how it's offered at a later date? Some people are happy to feel like something they have contributed is in use by a lot of people regardless of whether someone else is making money from it.

There are often lots of entangled assumptions in open projects like these. Ultimately, people have a right to offer their work as they want, so I see no problem with projects trying to request additional restrictions on how their work is used, but I also don't see a problem with companies using open projects as offerings. It was offered for free, and it's not like the cost of the offering isn't usually just the cost of the underlying resources plus some additional amount for ease of management.

Re: Redis is forked

#86

Post by refulgentis »

esafak wrote: post #51
all2 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Onnx allows arbitrary bundling and execution of ML models.. so maybe something to with the "run it local and private"?

Vector databases don't contain ML models. There is nothing that is learned. Here is a typical algorithm: https://www.pinecone.io/learn/series/faiss/hnsw/ It is all about performance; latency and recall.

Presumably the output of an ML model, the titular vector, and the chunk of text that created that vector are stored in a vector DB?

(that probably read aggressive, ignore my tone. At length: I run the model locally and store the vector locally, but I'm doing consumer use cases so I have different tradeoffs, so I'm glad to have someone who uses them interlocuting.)

Re: Redis is forked

#87

Post by [deleted] »

lenerdenator wrote: post #43
slashdev wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the noise people make when you don't use an OSI open-source license, little wonder. But when Redis started I think we didn't yet boardly understand the limitations of OSI licenses in the era of big tech cloud computing. To people starting projects today, you have no excuse, we know better. Don't use OSI open-source unless it's entirely a labor of love that you're giving away free. OSI Open-source business models…

They're not dead, just mostly dead. You can probably set up a decent privately-funded venture to deal in OSI software. The problem comes (as it always does) when the founders think they're the reincarnation of Steve Jobs and deserve a nine-or-ten-figure net worth for making a few nice, but ultimately not earth-shattering, software tools. Then they have to enshittify to get ready for the IPO.

[deleted]

Re: Redis is forked

#88

Post by refulgentis »

esafak wrote: post #16
refulgentis wrote: post #3

I thought the author was bringing in genAI for little reason...then I clicked through. For some reason storing vectors and chats is core to Redis' vision of its future. ( https://redis.io/blog/the-future-of-redis/ ) I'm, generally, a mobile dev so I'm not familiar with redis. My handwave-y understanding is its a in-memory key/value DB. I don't understand how that brings anything to the table for genAI. Couldn't the p…

Vector databases aren't for key value retrieval, they're for similarity search. What's that got to do with onnx?

ONNX runs the ML model that is f(string) -> vector. The similarity search is done using those vectors, and needs to return the original strings.

Re: Redis is forked

#89

Post by weinzierl »

bit_flipper wrote: post #53
eatonphil wrote: post #35

Why, unlike Redis and Elasticsearch and Terraform, was there no big community fork of MongoDB when it was relicensed? Cockroach, Materialize, and MariaDB were all also relicensed without massive backlash, I think. But I think that's because they had fewer users at the time. But Mongo's was the one relicense event that didn't produce so much shock that a new fork came out of it. And Mongo's stock is doing great, if th…

Definitely an interesting question. Some things that may explain why -- Mongo was always AGPL and relicensed to SSPL. This had the following consequences: * Very few companies and zero large cloud companies ever attempted to run the MongoDB codebase in production as a managed service, other than MongoDB the company. * Mostly because of the above, MongoDB did not receive many code contributions that did not originate…

Were there any MongoDB cloud offerings of the AGPL version?

If SSPL is effective as a poisonous pill against AWS and Co. but SSPL is not, that's a big difference in my book.

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