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Being deaf

davidpeter.me

81–90 of 161 posts

Re: Being deaf

#81
post #3

"The only good access service I’ve ever gotten is Cued Speech. In a basic sense, Cued Speech is a system that uses signs for sound. It was invented to battle the spectacularly low deaf literacy rate. (The average reading level of deaf 17- and 18-year-olds is at the fourth grade level.2) " Wow. That is seriously depressing. I can't even imagine being deaf and not reading a lot. (I actually don't think my life would be…

You are trying to imagine something that normal humans can not easily. That is why you are probably very wrong. Do not assume your life would have been very similar if you were deaf. Remember each and every day of you life would pose more struggle, much more than you go through now.

There's the flip side too. The OP mentions that they largely reject Deaf culture instead identifying as deaf.

Some Deaf people enjoy their lifestyle and the community and culture that surrounds them so much that they would choose for their children to be deaf so that they too can be a fully accepted (!) part of that same culture. TBH I've a lot of sympathy with that position.

In short, be cautious. A sign user living amongst a deaf community might well feel offended at your pity and assumption that theirs is a lower quality of life (for some measure of quality).

I think the OPs chosen field must be particularly hard - speakers have difficulty with communicating code/markup too, it requires a mix of communication media to effectively and unambiguously communicate code IMO. Transliterating code in to English can be tricky, I bet it's hard in sign too.

I'm interested whether the OP uses ASL at all (or some other sign language) or only uses Cued Speech. Also whether they've attempted to educate their colleagues in Cued Speech and if that has helped at all?

Re: Being deaf

#82

I appreciate taking the time and effort to put this article out there, and hope that it will help us hearing folk to improve our dealings with deaf people, but I can't help but have the following thoughts: 1) can the poster not lip-read? I realize it's not 100% accurate and you only get the portion of the conversation from the person you're looking at at the moment but from the description it sounds as if the poster…

>can the poster not lip-read? //

They mention consonantly difficulties - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cued_speech and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manually_Coded_Language seem quite good; from Cued Speech (ibid):

"It is a phonemic-based system which makes traditionally spoken languages accessible by using a small number of handshapes (representing consonants) in different locations near the mouth (representing vowels), as a supplement to lipreading."

Note also that being a proponent of cued speech apparently sets the author against a large part of the Deaf community who it seems take that as an affront to their culture and language.

Re: Being deaf

#83

TL;DR It sucks to be so isolated (and that’s probably why this post is so long in the first place) Thanks for sharing your experiences. I didn't realize until now how much it meant to me to hear about others going through similar experiences. I’m 22 and I just realized now that I haven't really communicated with another deaf person for about a decade since I graduated from elementary school where there was a small, t…

TL;DR I actually made an account to reply to this

Hi, sister here. It's 8 AM and she's (^) currently sleeping soundly near me, but I'd thought I'd contribute my own 2 cents on the whole matter.

I'm Alice, and I've grown up with a partially deaf sister whose hearing has gotten progressively worse in the recent years. I've watched her listen to me with ease years ago to leaning over and struggling to what I have to say now today. I'm currently studying music and aspiring to be a composer, and what does scare me is the thought that my sister won't be able to listen to my music when the time comes. She's the one who's supported my endeavor the most.

And now that I think about it, I never really "feel" that she has this hard of hearing situation. It's never been that way to me, I just accepted her since I was young and we've both been raised normally together like everyone else except for those awfully boring visits to The Hearing Doctors in which I frittered waiting around whining what's for lunch.

My sister has been fortunate enough to have the opportunities to grow into the person she is now. Of course, that doesn't undermine her struggles at all, but I understand that everyone has a different experience even within a group of relatable topics. I'm glad that my sister's never been socially isolated or bullied, like another close friend that I have.

I'll call him C here. He's an online friend (real as any other friend) and I cherish him a lot. He's 21, partially deaf, and has had cochlear implants. His life experiences differ a lot from my sister's. He's faced much adversities. C's been bullied when he was younger, has gone through depression, been socially isolated (at one point homeless) but is making considerable progress today in his game design education and I believe he'll succeed on his own someday. There was a time I didn't understand why he was so self conscious about his voice. The first time I heard him, I realized his speech was slurred - especially with the 's' and 'l' if I remember correctly. Once I got past a certain threshold, it was fairly easy to understand him and I didn't pay too much attention to some pronounciation difficulties.

Although we've been slowly drifting apart and now we're busy immersed in our lives, I won't forget the stories that he's told me or the things he's taught me. OP, thank you for posting your story. You sound like someone's who been through a lot.

And also -- don't give up on romance. I forgot to mention that there was a point in time that I liked C (romantically!), and he knew that very well. What can I say? I was attracted to his wisdom and motivation to keep on going, no matter how tough things got. :)

Re: Being deaf

#84
post #35

> The average reading level of deaf 17- and 18-year-olds is at the fourth grade level. Why??? I would have expected exactly the opposite. Words can open entire worlds. And today as never before a deaf person can communicate with people. The internet is text based as never before in human history. It can't be because written speech is based on oral. It's certainly possible to learn to read phonetically, but you don't…

I attended RIT, which is also home to the National Technical Institute for the Deaf. As "captdeaf" (who posted elsewhere in the thread) can probably attest, some deaf students are really bad at written English. The explanation I was given by a deaf guy I knew on IRC was that they were over-exposed to ASL and basically had English as an under-emphasized second language. I think he also pointed out some things about ASL that make English harder, but I don't remember them well enough to reliably repeat here--perhaps someone who is deaf can help me out?

Re: Being deaf

#85
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person who was raised with two different household languages at different times, I can offer anecdotal evidence that this holds true. My refugee parents decided that their native language (Romanian) would be an obstacle for me in their new country (Thailand) and went for English instead. Then we got asylum in Sweden and I learned Swedish in kindergarten and so on. In Sweden my parents started speaking Romanian a…

So you learned English from TV? I thought I've always heard that didn't work.

An ex-girlfriend of mine moved to the US from Romania at the age of ten without any knowledge of English. As an adult she speaks completely fluent English with no hint of an accent. She claims that she learned English by watching TV.

Though of course, she was also living in a country where most people speak English, so I'm sure that must have helped. I'll have to ask her how long it was before she started school again, and how well she understood English by that point.

Re: Being deaf

#86

I appreciate taking the time and effort to put this article out there, and hope that it will help us hearing folk to improve our dealings with deaf people, but I can't help but have the following thoughts: 1) can the poster not lip-read? I realize it's not 100% accurate and you only get the portion of the conversation from the person you're looking at at the moment but from the description it sounds as if the poster…

1) Lip-reading is hard. In a group conversation, how many of the people speaking are actually looking at you? How do you follow a back-and-forth? What if someone interrupts? Who is it? People vary in lip-reading skill. I'm on the lower end. If someone says "Lipreading sucks," and you get 50% of it, you get either "Lipread" or "ing sucks," neither of which tell you anything. In longer sentences, you can sometimes guess, but I seem to be terrible at it?

2) My speech has never been a problem as my work understands me quite well. I perceived I had bigger things to deal with, like working on understanding what people say and getting up-to-date on stuff happening at work.

3) I have many Deaf friends back in college who I try to hang out with. I'm still learning sign language from them, and they've all been very helpful and supportive. Until I become proficient enough to actually participate in signed conversations, though, I still don't feel as if I belong.

By the way, me being more proactive is something I'm also working hard on :-) It's all a process.

Re: Being deaf

#87
post #3

"The only good access service I’ve ever gotten is Cued Speech. In a basic sense, Cued Speech is a system that uses signs for sound. It was invented to battle the spectacularly low deaf literacy rate. (The average reading level of deaf 17- and 18-year-olds is at the fourth grade level.2) " Wow. That is seriously depressing. I can't even imagine being deaf and not reading a lot. (I actually don't think my life would be…

> I actually don't think my life would be seriously negatively impacted by being deaf

You couldn't be more wrong! Deafness is far worse a disability than blindness for most people in terms of integrating into and succeeding in society. The reason for this is that human beings are social creatures and deafness isolates people, while blindness doesn't. This is the reason that there is a whole unique deaf culture that tends to stay separate from mainstream culture. Within deaf culture, deaf people are not isolated.

This is the reason that many deaf people are morally opposed to cochlear implants. They feel that it is an attack on their culture--the culture that allows them to belong somewhere and thrive.

Re: Being deaf

#88
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person who was raised with two different household languages at different times, I can offer anecdotal evidence that this holds true. My refugee parents decided that their native language (Romanian) would be an obstacle for me in their new country (Thailand) and went for English instead. Then we got asylum in Sweden and I learned Swedish in kindergarten and so on. In Sweden my parents started speaking Romanian a…

So you learned English from TV? I thought I've always heard that didn't work.

Just another anecdote, but every Dutchman and Swede I've met has a much better grasp of the English language than any other country, and they all attribute it to how much American TV they watch. Probably just a corollary relationship given how English classes start at an early age, but I can't imagine the practice hurts.

Re: Being deaf

#89
post #73

Have you considered doing your own start up? From reading your story, I saw several opportunities. In particular I don’t know if it’s whether they never saw my note, whether they rejected my resume silently, or whether they attempted calling my phone number (which doesn’t take calls). stood out to me. It wasn't clear to me what happens when someone called the phone, but seemed like it rejected calls. Why not have an…

That sounds like it would work pretty well. Set up voicemail, but have it mention that the person is deaf and that an SMS or e-mail would be more convenient. The tricky part is transcription. If you want better transcription than Google Voice, you have to use a human.[1] That means Mechanical Turk or a TTY operator.

My main concern is how viable such a product would be. Depending on who you ask, 0.2-0.4% of the population is considered deaf. That's not a very big potential market.

1. I find it amusing that Google Voice transcribes robot voices particularly poorly. I've had voicemails from PagerDuty transcribed as "This is the FBI" when the actual message started with, "This is PagerDuty".

Re: Being deaf

#90
post #73

Have you considered doing your own start up? From reading your story, I saw several opportunities. In particular I don’t know if it’s whether they never saw my note, whether they rejected my resume silently, or whether they attempted calling my phone number (which doesn’t take calls). stood out to me. It wasn't clear to me what happens when someone called the phone, but seemed like it rejected calls. Why not have an…

There are actually answering machines for the deaf. But to use then you have to either have a tty machine, or call it through a relay service (711). But most online forms won't accept phone numbers that include the extra digits.

Conversely, the deaf can call 711 on a tty and have the operator check, and transcribe, their voicemail. But I can understand the concern they're getting it wrong, and th fact that many just don't like their privacy invaded in that fashion, and would prefer to skip voicemail, given the ubiquity of email.

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