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Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

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Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#81

Post by pjmlp »

adrianmsmith wrote: post #59
twelfthnight wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear "revolutionary" claimed about languages like Rust, Haskell and Zig, but rarely about Go. What about Golang is revolutionary to you?

The way concurrency works is pretty unique amongst mainstream languages. Java has just copied some parts of how concurrency works in Go, but that's nearly 20 years after Go was released. It's extremely easy to start up code concurrently with "go foo()". You can start up lots of such functions concurrently, as it works in userspace. Like async code, but no "colored functions" problem.

Actually Java brought back the green threads model that it had before Go came to be.

The difference is that now red and green threads are exposed at the API level, and not an implementation detail.

Hardly copying Go.

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#82

Post by [deleted] »

twelfthnight wrote: post #57
bheadmaster wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Golang is one of the Google products that I consider revolutionary in programming. But then again, it may just be because they employed the rockstars (Rob Pike, Ken Thomson, and Robert Griesemer) to work on it. I suppose it's less about the company, and more about who the company chooses to work on the project.

I hear "revolutionary" claimed about languages like Rust, Haskell and Zig, but rarely about Go. What about Golang is revolutionary to you?

[deleted]

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#83

Post by pjmlp »

bheadmaster wrote: post #65
twelfthnight wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear "revolutionary" claimed about languages like Rust, Haskell and Zig, but rarely about Go. What about Golang is revolutionary to you?

There are several features that can be considered neat on their own. Most of those features are probably derived from other languages, but together they form a very powerful language that simply takes away the pain that I feel using other modern languages, such as C++, Python, Java and NodeJS. Here are a few on top of my head: 1) CSP concepts embedded deeply into the language (goroutines/channels/select) making concu…

1) Modula-2, Active Oberon, Erlang

2) .NET, Java, Smalltalk, Common Lisp

3) Any compiled language until the mid-1990's.

4) Amsterdam Compilers Toolkit, 1980

5) Until the repo changes, forbids distribution of binary libraries

6) Standard ML, Caml Light, OCaml, Haskell,...

7) Turbo Pascal on CP/M, MS-DOS computers running at 7 MHz, with 640KB.

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#84

Post by throwaway290 »

brianzelip wrote: post #25
throwaway290 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought some teams at Google were dogfooding Angular for many years now?

Lots have been [0,1] 0, https://changelog.com/jsparty/310 1, https://changelog.com/jsparty/312

Yeah. I distinctly remember Google using it itself a big motivator to go with AngularJS and then Angular in side projects, so I was not wrong...

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#85

Post by rimunroe »

iainmerrick wrote: post #32
rimunroe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding your question but why would you want a single bundle vs multiple bundles? If you have a single blob you have to invalidate the whole thing when it updates. If you split your code out into multiple bundles you can invalidate only the bundles which contain changes. As far as I know this has been standard practice for the last decade at least.

I think it’s a good question, and the answer isn’t quite as straightforward as you suggest. The advantage of bundling is that you can do cross-module minification and dead-strip unused code. The extreme version of “multiple bundles” would be to minify each JS module individually, but don’t bundle them. That would clearly miss a lot of size optimisations. (And as I understand it, this is how Deno’s new package manager…

Thanks for the thorough reply!

I confess I wasn't thinking about a particular build tool. My recent experience has been with Vite, where I took a similar approach to what you describe, but haven't had to dig deep into bundle performance because that's not a bottleneck for our application. The last time I did deeper work on the subject was years ago with Webpack.

I thought Webpack at least did dead-code elimination before splitting things into chunks. If I'm reading this random GitHub issue[1] right (and the asker is also right), Webpack does partially behave as I expected, but the pre-chunking optimization pass occurs before things like constant expression evaluation.

[1] https://github.com/webpack/webpack/issues/16672

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#86

Post by b15h0p »

JamesonNetworks wrote: post #40

Ugh, this isn’t Angular anymore. This will be just like the v1 -> v2 transition. Presignal -> signal. The second they start deprecating the previous syntax, we will hit very difficult migrations

There is a pretty usable migration tool built into Angular CLI at least for switching over to the new template syntax. Requires some manual cleanup here and there but overall it’s not painful at all.

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#87

Post by chuckadams »

tashoecraft wrote: post #52
chuckadams wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The template syntax of Angular isn't the problem most people have with it. It's the boilerplate, the forced OOP paradigm, having to work with observables even when they're not appropriate (thus having to understand "hot" vs "cold" observables), and up until recently, having to scatter each component across three different files. And to top it off, when the lack of expressivity is touted as a feature for taming comple…

You have literally never had to scatter each component across three files. From the first release of Angular 2, you had "single file components", with template, styles and js all in one file.

It does appear I was wrong about the "until recently" bit: Angular still doesn't have a single-file component format like Vue or Svelte. Of course you can stick templates in string literals (and IDEA will even treat them as angular templates). Just be prepared to escape your quotes I guess. The official tutorial still uses separate files, and the tooling defaults to them too.

Honestly the real shame is that IDEs don't present a more integrated UI for separate files, and that on the other hand in my Vue apps I still have to argue over the order of script/template/style sections. I guess Angular at least avoids that second problem.

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#88

Post by Workaccount2 »

agotterer wrote: post #77
twelfthnight wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What choice can you point to that has increased Google's market cap? Google's search quality is deteriorating, Waymo is yet to make a profit, GCP is struggling, "Attention is all you need" was too early on to credit Sundar, and since then Google's reputation is flagging due to embarrassing AI models... I think Google's market cap is increase _despite_ Sundar, not because. That said, Google does have enough resources…

GCP is struggling? Is that an opinion based on experience or based on actual stats? Because GCP revenue has increased every year since 2017. AWS and Azure are capturing more market share. But I’m not sure I consider third place and $33B in revenue last year a struggle.[1] > I just don't think Sundar is the right person to do it That was sort of my point. Does Google need to be turned around? All stock metrics and rev…

Google is in the familiar position where there numbers are good, the charts are all pretty, but when you go put your ear to the ground, you only hear sounds of trouble.

If google had proper leadership, the company would easily be worth twice it's current value. Easily. Instead we have a situation where raw capitalist inertia is carrying the company forward, while active discussions of the company are ridden with grievances and frustrations. Grievances and frustrations in a market where there are competitors that users can flee to. It's a bad spot to be in.

There is no reason Google shouldn't be the ones on the cusp of releasing GPT-5 level LLMs. None. Instead however they have a middling LLM that is scared to mention white people. So back to the drawing board so they can work out the racial kinks, while the competition blasts past them.

Google needs big company technology focused leadership 5 years ago. But tomorrow would be good too.

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#89

Post by usui »

chuckadams wrote: post #87
tashoecraft wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have literally never had to scatter each component across three files. From the first release of Angular 2, you had "single file components", with template, styles and js all in one file.

It does appear I was wrong about the "until recently" bit: Angular still doesn't have a single-file component format like Vue or Svelte. Of course you can stick templates in string literals (and IDEA will even treat them as angular templates). Just be prepared to escape your quotes I guess. The official tutorial still uses separate files, and the tooling defaults to them too. Honestly the real shame is that IDEs don'…

Isn't dealing with bare string literals for HTML-like syntax a terrible developer experience?

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#90

Post by sieabahlpark »

miiiiiike wrote: post #50

For years I’ve been saying “Angular is the wrong choice now but it will be the right one someday…” I didn’t think it would take 5 years to get there. The Angular team has been doing incredible work lately. The only thing that I still don’t like about Angular is trying to learn anything from the reference docs. Have a reasonable developer tell me what a component viewProvider is and how it’s different from a provider…

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