Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants • Hacker News Board

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#81

Post by resource_waste » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 4:14 PM UTC

icyfox wrote: post #79

Right now one of the biggest blockers in on-shoring semiconductor fab at any kind of reasonable price-point and timescale is the lack of a skilled workforce. This legislation has dual objectives: train new people to get into sophisticated manufacturing AND to build out the actual infrastructure itself. That almost guarantees it won't be the most efficient way to actually get these chips on American soil. Whether we l…

Or we are going to be training Junior engineers with outdated skill sets and build outdated infrastructure.

Sometimes top down planning works, but I think I would personally need to trust the leadership and the incentives.

Unfortunately incentives on these are typically to do bare-minimum so you can meet the criteria to get subsidies. Sure the chips will be usable, but you spent a multiplier of the cost it takes to get it, and the chips aren't cutting edge.

I'd a bit more interested in some moonshot idealism than just some military buildup.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#82

Post by bhhaskin » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 4:15 PM UTC

34679 wrote: post #68

I feel sorry for any startups looking to innovate in this space. It's hard enough competing against established players without them getting billions in free money. Intel has had the resources to build out fabs in the US for decades. Instead, they've chosen to build elsewhere, and now they're rewarded for it? They recently announced their $20b facility in Ohio is being "put on hold": https://www.tweaktown.com/news/96…

This isn't really a startup kinda business. It costs something like $10b to build a new fab.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#83

Post by ar_lan » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 4:15 PM UTC

icyfox wrote: post #79

Right now one of the biggest blockers in on-shoring semiconductor fab at any kind of reasonable price-point and timescale is the lack of a skilled workforce. This legislation has dual objectives: train new people to get into sophisticated manufacturing AND to build out the actual infrastructure itself. That almost guarantees it won't be the most efficient way to actually get these chips on American soil. Whether we l…

Why don't we just use AI to do this?

/s should hopefully be obvious, but it does seem like anytime AI gets mentioned, it's clear cut to remove all US jobs away within the next 3-5 years, so it's ironic seeing a "lack of a skilled workforce" comment.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#84

Post by lupusreal » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 4:15 PM UTC

34679 wrote: post #68

I feel sorry for any startups looking to innovate in this space. It's hard enough competing against established players without them getting billions in free money. Intel has had the resources to build out fabs in the US for decades. Instead, they've chosen to build elsewhere, and now they're rewarded for it? They recently announced their $20b facility in Ohio is being "put on hold": https://www.tweaktown.com/news/96…

> Intel has had the resources to build out fabs in the US for decades. Instead, they've chosen to build elsewhere

Almost all of Intel's fabs are in America.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#85

Post by devwastaken » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 4:15 PM UTC

icyfox wrote: post #79

Right now one of the biggest blockers in on-shoring semiconductor fab at any kind of reasonable price-point and timescale is the lack of a skilled workforce. This legislation has dual objectives: train new people to get into sophisticated manufacturing AND to build out the actual infrastructure itself. That almost guarantees it won't be the most efficient way to actually get these chips on American soil. Whether we l…

I don't think Intel is going to train a new skilled workforce. Their domestic hiring is minimal. Like the rest of tech these bills are leveraging work visas that ensure the Corp has feudal control over their workers.

The right thing to do is to block these big waves and force global competition.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#86

Post by Spivak » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 4:16 PM UTC

gchokov wrote: post #78

snapcaster wrote: post #75

I understand why Intel is getting these, but would be nice to see this money go to companies that are still innovating and are somewhere in the US coalition/orbit (TSMC, Samsung, etc.)

Samsung? Really?

I mean they're a company from a strongly allied nation who operates 13 fabs, why not?

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#87

Post by resource_waste » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 4:16 PM UTC

snapcaster wrote: post #75

I understand why Intel is getting these, but would be nice to see this money go to companies that are still innovating and are somewhere in the US coalition/orbit (TSMC, Samsung, etc.)

Samsung?

I wonder if this is coming from a position of ignorance... Samsung is among the companies of the world that might be producing negative externalities that weigh more than their positive contributions

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#88

Post by redleggedfrog » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 4:16 PM UTC

nahnahno wrote: post #72

dclowd9901 wrote: post #66

I'm sure Intel will be very happy to bolster their cash savings with this investment. Or have we already forgotten about that broadband investment from way back?

The money afaik has to be used for actual manufacturing activities.

Just wait for the "Coke, Steak, and Strippers" addendum. The C-levels need that for when they go party with Boeing.

Intel made ~55 billion last year. Maybe they don't really need corporate welfare.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#89

Post by lupusreal » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 4:18 PM UTC

resource_waste wrote: post #81

icyfox wrote: post #79

Right now one of the biggest blockers in on-shoring semiconductor fab at any kind of reasonable price-point and timescale is the lack of a skilled workforce. This legislation has dual objectives: train new people to get into sophisticated manufacturing AND to build out the actual infrastructure itself. That almost guarantees it won't be the most efficient way to actually get these chips on American soil. Whether we l…

Or we are going to be training Junior engineers with outdated skill sets and build outdated infrastructure. Sometimes top down planning works, but I think I would personally need to trust the leadership and the incentives. Unfortunately incentives on these are typically to do bare-minimum so you can meet the criteria to get subsidies. Sure the chips will be usable, but you spent a multiplier of the cost it takes to g…

Top down planning is the only way projects requiring massive capital investment get done. There's no such thing as grassroots fabs.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#90

Post by IncreasePosts » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 4:18 PM UTC

redleggedfrog wrote: post #88

nahnahno wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money afaik has to be used for actual manufacturing activities.

Just wait for the "Coke, Steak, and Strippers" addendum. The C-levels need that for when they go party with Boeing. Intel made ~55 billion last year. Maybe they don't really need corporate welfare.

It's more of an inducement to get the company to do what they might not do on their own. Intel doesn't need the CHIPS act, America does, and America is paying Intel to make it happen.