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Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

nytimes.com

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Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#81

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #60
ixwt wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. You can mess with odometer as much as you like. Trying to sell it off with a different amount of miles than have actually been put on it is called fraud. You should own your car and be able to do as you wish. You should also be able to turn on or off any tracking. There are just consequences for some of the things you might want to do.

> should own your car Ownership is a legal concept. What it means, what that package of rights tied to a piece of property entails, is entirely dependent on the law. Using ownership as a guideline for rule-making is bad form because it’s tautology; I can justify and condemn anything on the basis of my or adjoining persons’ purported ownership rights. The machine languages of ownership are control and possession. That…

ownership has a legal definition, the concept of ownership exists outside of the law.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#82

Post by techdmn »

My biggest concern is that rather than comparing difficult to identify behavior against claim rates, they will penalize behavior that is easy to identify. For example, yesterday I was traveling 15 MPH over the speed limit on a multi-line highway where traffic is often traveling 10+ MPH over the limit (the limit is objectively wrong for a divided, grade separated, access controlled highway). I typically drive as far right as I can to make room for faster vehicles, but eventually got stuck behind someone camping in the left lane. When opportunity presented itself I went around them in the center lane. They expressed anger at this by encroaching into my lane to squeeze me against traffic in the right lane. There were four inches between their vehicle and my side mirror. Who is driving dangerously, and more likely to cause an accident? I would argue it's the driver who is obstructing traffic and behaving aggressively toward others on the road. But if GPS isn't accurate enough to show their lane deviation, it's a lot easier to ding me for my speed.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#83

Post by 1970-01-01 »

chucksta wrote: post #80
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who actually owns them? We need to treat this similar to the "right to repair" issue Ownership is a bad framework for this issue—it’s too ambiguous. You can “own” a vehicle all you want, that doesn’t give you the right to fuck with its odometer or catalytic converter.

You can do whatever you want to it, you just can't legally drive it on public roads anymore. You are forgetting about all the use cases which aren't general public transit.

>you just can't legally drive it on public roads anymore

Varies by state.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#84

Post by Kon-Peki »

batch12 wrote: post #72
VHRanger wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brand?

Toyota. I still had the sticker- I peeled it off and put it in the manual. The exact text is: VEHICLE DATA TRANSMISSION IS ON! Your vehicle wirelessly transmits location, driving and vehicle health data to deliver your services and for internal research and data analysis. See www.toyota[.]com/privacyvts. To disable, press vehicle's SOS button.

Prepare to be creeped out:

https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#86

Post by 654wak654 »

techdmn wrote: post #82

My biggest concern is that rather than comparing difficult to identify behavior against claim rates, they will penalize behavior that is easy to identify. For example, yesterday I was traveling 15 MPH over the speed limit on a multi-line highway where traffic is often traveling 10+ MPH over the limit (the limit is objectively wrong for a divided, grade separated, access controlled highway). I typically drive as far r…

Making it easier to determine who's at fault in cases like you mentioned would involve more sensors, radars, cameras etc. So we either 1984-ify everyones car or we just don't do any monitoring at all (since half-assing it can lead to false positives). I have a feeling insurance companies (and therefore governments) will slide more towards the 1984 side to save a couple dollars.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#87

Post by FirmwareBurner »

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #76
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which country is that?

They're describing what should be, not what is.

No, I was asking about this statement which I assume wasn't hypothetical:

> I have I personally and it saves me around 300€/year on my cars insurance because I am a very defensive driver.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#88

Post by 654wak654 »

mancerayder wrote: post #74

My insurance went up 10 percent out of the blue. Wonder if Tesla shares?

Could've just been "inflation" (read: Opportunity to jack up prices) too. Although if one car company is going to be on the bleeding edge of data collection & sharing it'd probably be Tesla. They're the most Silicon Valley of all.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#89

Post by 654wak654 »

jgalt212 wrote: post #22

I hope so. Get the animals off the road.

Imagine a scenario where bunch of those animals brake check you, and then your insurance company calls you up and says "Hey jgalt212, we're seeing that you your forward collion avoidance system got activated too many times this year. We're going to flag you as a tailgater and up your premium by %80. Have a lovely day."

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#90

Post by themaninthedark »

bell-cot wrote: post #12
themaninthedark wrote: post #3

All the companies were have bee hoovering up our data, where did you think this was going to end? Add in the fact that if you are not getting "growth" on the stock market, then you must be doing something wrong.

The Stasi didn't add anything to the GDP of the GDR, either. That wasn't the point then, and it isn't now.

My point is that companies start to collect data; either for debug purposes or to try and better understand the customer.

Then there is a lot of pressure to monetize the data. So from a consumer POV, it is better to not have anything collected.

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