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Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

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Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#81

I welcome any and all improvements to touchpads on Linux and Windows systems. Switching from my personal MacBook to my work ThinkPad is like traveling back in time in terms of usability.

I just want the integrated touchpad of my Dell Latitude 9330 to work decently. The libinput driver is just crap with this model, to the point that I have to connect an Apple Magic Trackpad, and that works great. Synaptic driver works better for the internal one, but apparently it is old and deprecated and everybody writes that we should not be using that.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#82
post #19

Why does this seem like such a hard problem to solve for everyone that isn’t Apple, when Apple seemingly solved the Trackpad over a decade ago? Is this it? An unknown ROI? >the highly uncertain ROI for trying to align touchpad acceleration has prevented us from proposing a system change to the default Linux settings. I can only speak for myself, but I gave up using trackpads on anything that isn’t a MacBook many year…

Didn't Microsoft try to do something with the Surface laptops? Did that pan out? But yes, it's mindboggling how bad trackpads are on PCs. I've had corporate Lenovo T-series, X1 Carbon, and Yoga for more than a decade, and while things have gotten slightly better I still need an external mouse I may need to travel a lot by bus to my new job, and I'm now actually considering a Mac again even though Excel/PowerPoint is…

I’d say—yes, very much so. Pointer movement is damn near perfect now on the Dell Precision I have at work. Clicking unfortunately not so much, but it’s mostly bearable.

Also, at 15×9 cm, it has over 5 times the area of the teensy trackpad on my old ThinkPad R61, which is just 5.5×4.8 cm.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#83

Why does this seem like such a hard problem to solve for everyone that isn’t Apple, when Apple seemingly solved the Trackpad over a decade ago? Is this it? An unknown ROI? >the highly uncertain ROI for trying to align touchpad acceleration has prevented us from proposing a system change to the default Linux settings. I can only speak for myself, but I gave up using trackpads on anything that isn’t a MacBook many year…

One thing that might make a difference is that for a long time now, Apple trackpads are actually touchscreens sans screen. They use the same multitouch hardware as iPhones and iPads, which of course are precise and responsive.

I would guess that these are probably a bit more expensive than your run of the mill trackpad from e.g. Synaptics that ends up in the typical laptop.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#84

2024 is the Year of the Linux Desktop! This _surely_ is a sign we're going to get it, right? Right?

We all know the "Year of the Linux Desktop" meme, but this deserves an answer.

I don't think linux will overtake apple on the desktop (which actually includes notebook and laptops) but the current state has been good enough for a few years. And I'm not saying it is good enough only in terms of it being ready or well rounded, I mean in terms of marketshare. Linux has surpassed the 4% mark in globalstats last month and combined with chromeOS (with which it share many drivers) had peaks above 7% last year; it is very likely that the record will be broken this year. Of course, globalstats may be inaccurate, but I guess it is a good picture of the trends.

This has had an interesting consequence: it is no longer a good idea to ignore linux on the desktop; at least not for hardware vendors. It's been a long time since I last saw a consolidated laptop with anything not working out of the box. In the software side, linux is still ignored by some big name vendors, namely adobe, microsoft and game studios. That point is still sad.

Now, considering most developers software are multiplatform and, besides games, most entertainment runs on the browser, the last obstacle is still software. As linux' usage grows (and although very slow, it grows increasingly faster), vendors will eventually have to change their minds about linux on the desktop. Nevertherless I don't think that will happen before the end of this decade, also I don't think will see linux beating windows or even mac on the desktop. But, since I'm not dependent on any non-multiplatform software, I really don't care: the current situation (even in terms of marketshare and the way it has been continually improving) is good enough for me and has been for some years already.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#85
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I believe that the 3D Touch tech that was once in the iPhone is the same tech that is in the track pad and the Apple Watch 3D touch was only in the iphones for a few years, it was too expensive so they cut it in favor of the haptic touch they have now. The macbook trackpad is nice but honestly I prefer the old 2012 one they had with the actual physical button you could tweak the pressure of with a screwdriver. It se…

I’m sorry what You can adjust the pressing force required in software, and the glass does in fact depress under your finger. It’s cushioned - that’s how they detect pressure.

[deleted]

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#86
Seems like calling it "Linux touchpad like MacBook" is a way to make sure that no one will be willing to help you other than people who use MacBooks, and people who use MacBooks have no need for this.

I'm into "Linux touchpad with more tweakable and accessible parameters," or "Linux touchpad with better gesture support," but described like this, it's the type of thing I would ignore or not even hear about until it was an abandoned/dead project. I simply wouldn't realize that it's something useful for me to support. I exclusively use touchpads and Linux desktops, and while I've been frustrated at not being able to get the touchpad to feel like I would ideally want, if it felt like a Mac touchpad I would hate it.

A bunch of parameters that you can tweak to imitate MacBooks? Yes, please. A switch to turn your touchpad into a Mac touchpad? Who cares other than people who are only forced to use Linux for development on the job because their preferred Mac is too nerfed to allow them to allow them to get their work done?

As a larger statement, it seems that the strain of "What will make Linux catch on is making it more like Macs" has largely died off, largely because the people who want Macs buy Macs. It's a tactic as likely to be as successful as the "making Firefox indistinguishable from Chrome will make Chrome users switch to Firefox" pretense, and gets as much development support as the "making GIMP exactly like Photoshop" projects. The Firefox thing wouldn't have happened if they weren't completely funded by Google, and people who like Photoshop prefer Photoshop and aren't going to work on GIMP.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#87
post #4

Apple has been perfecting its trackpad software since 1994, and it’s been getting better ever since. By contrast Apple keyboards have gotten worse since 1995 when it discontinued the Apple Extended Keyboard II. We don’t talk about Apple’s mice.

Yep.

The TouchPads from Apple are good. Their keyboards are bad. There are two important I/O devices in a laptop, the keyboard and the display. The keyboards from ThinkPads are near perfect and don’t fall apart. Lenovo decided to remove the 7th row to acquire more space for the TouchPad. Which is a design mistake because TouchPads don’t get better by becoming just bigger.

I never use the TouchPad in my ThinkPad. I mean it is there and works nice. Libinput improved a lot. But there is a TrackPoint in the keyboard. Never leave the home row. That is where HJKL is :)

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the reason is that "a good trackpad" as well as "a good keyboard" is not something that can be measured. Let's say that the cost of a good trackpad is equivalent to the cost of, let's say, 16 more Gb of RAM. Does the user given the same price choose to by the laptop with written on the box "32Gb of RAM" or the one that says 16? The first, because 32 is better than 16! Apple is different because they have a pr…

> they can put the price tag they want on it. Want they spend 100$ on a trackpad, they can, but a PC manufacturer can't Why can't they?

Because they will have a more expensive laptop with nothing to show for it on the label, and customers will buy cheaper ones with "the same specs".

You can't really put "better touchpad" on a label... or can you?

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#89

The main thing I think is missing is universal support for kinetic/inertial scrolling, where you can fling your fingers on the touchpad and it keeps going after you stop. It seems to work with GTK but not Qt

I would find that incredibly annoying for touchpad inputs. Sure, I can understand kinetic input for touchscreens, but touchpads should be precision inputs, not the sort of thing where accidentally bumping two fingers on the touchpad sends you two pages down.

Re: Linux Touchpad Like MacBook Update: 2023 Progress on Smooth Scrolling

#90
I'm confused what this is trying to achieve. In my four years of Linux usage, I have had no complaints about the touchpad[0].

[0] Other than the issue where sometimes my touchpad requires an extra finger touch to work after resuming from suspend, but I have a hunch that is a hardware/firmware issue. In fact, I seem to recall that happening on a Windows machine once.

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