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Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

cpj.org

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#81

Post by boringg »

henry2023 wrote: post #76
boringg wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true but a couple things have changed since those very dated sample points. (1) Definition of journalist (2) quantity of journalists (3) willingness to be on the very front lines in order to get better stories (4) technology enabling journalists thus being able to be more dangerous spots. (5) speculation -> journalists who are using press credentials as cover I'm neither way on the conflict but want to co…

Are we seeing the same percentage of journalists killed by the Russian army in Ukraine?

Totally different war structure.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#82

Post by nsguy »

g-b-r wrote: post #55
Workaccount2 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All Hamas has to do is issue uniforms for fighters. Israel would probably even voluntarily foot the cost. But Hamas won't do it because of how much leverage civilians getting killed gets them.

And, it must be so hard to tell if a Palestinian with a rifle is of Hamas (or another fighting group), or a civilian...

You can see videos with the pattern of "civilians" grabbing an RPG, firing it, and dropping it. One minute they're civilians, the next 2 they're not, then they're civilians again. They don't have rifles when they're doing this.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#83

Post by dang »

xyzelement wrote: post #64

Actually reading this article shows some heavy conjecture. They talk about the existence of Pegasus software, and they talk about the fact that generically, it has been used in the world to track journalists. They don't actually cite a single example of a Palestinian, much less a journalist, being tracked through Pegasus. Likewise, they say it "appears" that this data is then used for targeting but no indication as t…

Thanks, that's a good point. The first few paragraphs alone say "allegedly", "believes", and "thought to have".

I've changed the link from https://pressgazette.co.uk/news/gaza-journalists-targeted-sp... (the submitted URL) to https://cpj.org/2024/03/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-..., which it points to. I've also changed the title to reflect the link change.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#84

Post by 2597123128 »

xyzelement wrote: post #64

Actually reading this article shows some heavy conjecture. They talk about the existence of Pegasus software, and they talk about the fact that generically, it has been used in the world to track journalists. They don't actually cite a single example of a Palestinian, much less a journalist, being tracked through Pegasus. Likewise, they say it "appears" that this data is then used for targeting but no indication as t…

[1] is a good source for a list of people, and an explanation of how Citizen Lab determined the phones were infected by Pegasus.

[1]: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/research/2021/11/devices-o...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#86

Post by hersko »

licebmi__at__ wrote: post #40
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 10% would be considered an extremely high death rate for soldiers involved in the fighting. Even 2.5% for healthcare workers is ridiculously high. Hamas based their operations where conventional rules of war prohibit fire. That makes comparing casualty rates incredibly difficult. (To my knowledge, nobody else has done this so comprehensively. Though given its success, I expect it to be emulated. Which unfortunately…

>Though given its success, I expect it to be emulated. I'm wondering by what metric do you define success.

A lot of civilians being killed by the enemy driving global condemnation.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#87

Post by ethanbond »

boringg wrote: post #81
henry2023 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we seeing the same percentage of journalists killed by the Russian army in Ukraine?

Totally different war structure.

The onus of protecting journalists (and medical workers) falls on the military regardless of how difficult the war they’re trying to prosecute is.

How many journalists did the US kill in 20 years of OEF/OIF?

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#88

Post by itsoktocry »

Gabriel54 wrote: post #45
transformi wrote: post #39

[flagged]

Suppose I am a country at war with the United States. Do I have the right to kill every American journalist? Also, it is not clear what "working in Hamas" means since they formed the government of the Gaza strip, so people "working in Hamas" would include all public officials, civil servants, etc. Does Israel have the right to kill all the sanitation workers of the Gaza strip since they also "work in Hamas"?

>Suppose I am a country at war with the United States. Do I have the right to kill every American journalist?

This something people say from 5000 miles from the conflict. "Rules" go out the window when you're the one holding the gun and being shot at. The people on the ground are just trying to survive.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#89

Post by eeeehhh »

jncfhnb wrote: post #48
Gabriel54 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose I am a country at war with the United States. Do I have the right to kill every American journalist? Also, it is not clear what "working in Hamas" means since they formed the government of the Gaza strip, so people "working in Hamas" would include all public officials, civil servants, etc. Does Israel have the right to kill all the sanitation workers of the Gaza strip since they also "work in Hamas"?

The rules of war are completely out the door when one side routinely pretends to be civilian, which is a war crime. Which is not to say it’s just to go committing whichever crimes you want, but discussing legal rights is largely pointless because it is immediately a lawless war.

No, one side of a conflict cannot ignore the rules simply because the other side does.

It also seems an especially poor argument when one side is a nuclear-armed, highly modern military power and the other a lighltly armed militia.

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