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Certain dogs are capable of learning the names for more than 100 different toys

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Certain dogs are capable of learning the names for more than 100 different toys

#81
post #5

I know I've seen videos of animals where I thought "damn, this one must be above the bell curve." And you know, there are individual humans vastly smarter than us so I figure there gotta be the same in the animal kingdom too.

And you can legally breed them.

Re: Certain dogs are capable of learning the names for more than 100 different toys

#82
I'm a little disappointed that there is not a single mention of Psychologist John W. Pilley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_W._Pilley) nor Chaser the Border Collie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaser_(dog)). Pilley did an extensive amount of work including teaching Chaser over 1000 nouns. This was repeatedly verified in trials.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGlUZWNjxPA

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/27/science/chaser-border-col...

https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/news/remembering-chaser-th...

edit: Added another link to the AKC article on Chaser.

Re: Certain dogs are capable of learning the names for more than 100 different toys

#83
post #79

I think what's way more interesting is that dogs can master class inclusion: they can understand that this toy is "Mr Shakey" and this toy is "Elephant" but they can also understand that there is a superordinate category of "toys" that includes both Mr Shakey and Elephant, and when asked "Go and get me a toy" can choose either. This is mind-blowing, as children normally have to reach 7 or 8 before they have a solid g…

I did not know what class inclusion was, but now I'm thinking it's more complex than that? After a little bit of reading. "all daisies are flowers" and not "all flowers are daisies", this example seems more like the "solid grasp" you're referring to. And not basic categorization that a 3 year old might have: "foods", "toys"

Hmm, I'm now struggling to remember basic developmental psych, but there's definitely a phase at which linguistic children struggle with things having two names (it can't be both "dog" and "Rex") but I think you're right - this phenomenon is subtly different to class inclusion. But either way, dogs can do something with language comprehension that speaking children can't, which is the bit I find really interesting

Re: Certain dogs are capable of learning the names for more than 100 different toys

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dogs can pick up on a lot of human things that aren't spoken; they're actually very good at body language. That and their ability to eat starch/more omnivorous diets are probably the biggest differences between them and wolves.

I once visited a wolf rescue where a wolf pup was being raised in a pen with two Great Pyrenees puppies (to socialize it with them). The biggest behavioral difference I noticed between the two was that while the wolf was willing to be (and perhaps even enjoyed being) pet and handled, it absolutely did not care that we were in the pen. It wandered off after a few moments checking out the new visitors, whereas the pupp…

There is nothing in this world like a Great Pyrenees puppy at about 8 months. They're SO big, but SO dumb and cuddly. They're the perfect thing, and the embodiment of joy.

Re: Certain dogs are capable of learning the names for more than 100 different toys

#85

The amazing thing to me about dogs is the tremendous range of variability we have bred into them. Size, shape, color, intelligence, basic body makeup, senses, hunting instincts, even average life span vary by an astonishing amount. And sadly, of course, the selective breeding has also caused systematic weaknesses in some breeds (prone to bad hips, knee injuries, relatively short life span, etc). The genie is out of t…

Just a quick note on this, it's not entirely appropriate to blame selective breeding "in general" for those issues. Quite often those issues come from specific selective breeding practises designed to make the dogs more "fashionable" by breeding specific aesthetic attributes over healthy dogs.

That being said, there is an enormous community of extremely passionate breeders around the world who are absolutely dedicated to breeding HEALTHIER dogs, especially in breeds that are known to have issues due to poor breeding.

We have a Boston Terrier we got from one such breeder after spending over two years looking for someone we trusted to do the process right, and we are so happy we did. Not only do we have an amazing pet, but we know we are activity contributing to the process of improving the overall health of the breed, even though it did cost us more to do.

A few things to look for in order to pick a "good" breeder.

1. How many litters do each of their female dogs have over their lives. If a breeder is expecting them to produce more than two (three at the most) litters, that's a red flag.

2. Do the mums deliver naturally, or via C-section. We only learned through extensive research that some breeds (often including Boston's) almost all have to give birth via C-section because they've been so extremely bread. We specifically looked for a breeder who's dogs a born naturally. If the pups are so extreme in your they've been bread that the mum can't get them out naturally... Something has gone too far.

3. Is the breeder a "purist" when it comes to the breed. Now this is going to be the opposite of what most people expect, but you WANT a breeder who is 1930's levels eugenicist when it comes to their breed. Fundamentally, most of the issues from breeding come about through mongrelisation of the breed. Low quality breeders cross-breed dogs to introduce "cool" or "fashionable" new traits, without caring about the million other genetic inconsistencies they're bringing into the mix at the same time.

A great example is with Boston Terriers we learned. The breed spec for them is VERY clear, they have a white base coat with a black or extremely dark brown "tuxedo" style coat covering their lower body and a portion of their front-legs.

ANYTHING that has colours other than those three, is a cross-breed for fashion purposes. There is no such thing as an "albino Boston", or a "patterned Boston" etc etc, these are marketing names people came up with for mongrelised versions of the breed which will almost always have major health issues.

Re: Certain dogs are capable of learning the names for more than 100 different toys

#86
post #79

I think what's way more interesting is that dogs can master class inclusion: they can understand that this toy is "Mr Shakey" and this toy is "Elephant" but they can also understand that there is a superordinate category of "toys" that includes both Mr Shakey and Elephant, and when asked "Go and get me a toy" can choose either. This is mind-blowing, as children normally have to reach 7 or 8 before they have a solid g…

I did not read the paper, so I cannot comment on the "solid grasp of class inclusion", but regarding the capacity that you described in your comment, I have a 2-year-old and it's been a long while since she has mastered this (book vs this book, toy vs toy, fruit vs an apple and so on). As far as I know, most two year old have already acquired this concept.

(EDIT I see the other comment says something similar and you have replied)

Re: Certain dogs are capable of learning the names for more than 100 different toys

#87

I'm a little disappointed that there is not a single mention of Psychologist John W. Pilley ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_W._Pilley ) nor Chaser the Border Collie ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaser_(dog) ). Pilley did an extensive amount of work including teaching Chaser over 1000 nouns. This was repeatedly verified in trials. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGlUZWNjxPA https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/27/s…

> a little disappointed

that's putting it mildly. It's hard to believe SciAm could even publish this.

Neil deGrasse Tyson went on TV with Chaser and his owner. He tested Chaser by putting an unnamed toy in the pile, and then said "go get Darwin." ("Darwin" being an unused name)

Chaser successfully figured out it must be the toy whose name he didn't know.

Re: Certain dogs are capable of learning the names for more than 100 different toys

#88

I adopted an Australian Shepherd from a friend a year ago and I'm absolutely blown away by how smart he is. He even knows the neighbor dogs' names. I can say "go get spot!" and he'll run after the right dog. He knows all my family members names. He knows that "you've arrived" on Google maps means we are there. He knows that "power on" coming from my Bluetooth headphones means we are going for a walk. He gets the conc…

I had a dumb labrador that was hard to train. Now I have a kokoni who knows 20 commands & words, and she is super easy to train. We haven't tried to test the limit of her abilities, we just ran out of things to teach her (that we cared about, at least). She never cared for toys though.

I noticed while teaching her to "speak" that she would sneeze a lot, I guess it's kind of a reflex for her when she tries to speak. So I wondered, can I teach a dog to sneeze? And sure enough, after a bit of training, she will now sneeze on command.

Re: Certain dogs are capable of learning the names for more than 100 different toys

#89
While Ernie is certainly smart, I've found one gap in his IQ:

He has some favorite houses because the person who lives there gives him treats. Several times, we'll see that person on the street and then pass their house, and Ernie still gets excited.

I tell him, "Ernie, we just saw Jan. She can't possibly be in the house."

He never listens.

Re: Certain dogs are capable of learning the names for more than 100 different toys

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They would call us stupid for not being able to remember the smell of more than a few dozen objects. Dogs obviously have incredibly more advanced olfactory systems but I feel like you're downplaying humans here. I'm pretty sure there's hundreds of very specific smells I could identify pretty well. Smell of home, pencil rubbers, chalk clouds, rotten bananas, denim.. things do have quite specific smells and there's a…

Plus the whole feeling of “I just smelled this thing and it reminds me of my aunt’s house, who died 35 years ago”. I think it’s pretty established that humans are very good with smell. We just aren’t very sensitive compared to dogs

I recently started swimming for fitness after not doing so since 10 years ago in high school. I get a rush of nostalgia and a good feeling whenever I catch a whiff of chlorine on my hands or hair throughout the day.
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