Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 194 posts

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#81

Post by distances »

jellicle wrote: post #52
csa wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very good appliances that last a long time currently exist. They are just not at the price point that many/most folks prefer to pay.

If there exists a company that makes appliances that are very expensive and that last a long time, a company with a real reputation for quality, then it is extremely profitable for that company to be purchased by a hedge fund that cuts quality by 90%, raises prices by 10%, and just rides that train into the ground over the next 20 years.

Miele has that reputation. According to Wikipedia, it "has always been a family-owned and family-run company", which would explain why it hasn't suffered that fate.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#82

Post by bryanrasmussen »

switch007 wrote: post #65
magicalhippo wrote: post #26

Here in Norway, for large appliances there's a 5-year statutory warranty[1], 2 years for smaller appliances etc. It covers anything that's not a wear-item breaking due to normal use. The shop who sold it has the burden of proof in case they want to claim it's been exposed to non-normal usage. The shop has the right to try to repair the damage, but after two times (for the same issue), you have the right to get your m…

Just to be clear, within the entire 5 year period a defect is assumed to be a manufacturing fault? If not, isn’t it easy for the seller to claim damage/wear and tear etc? We have 6 years in the UK but only in the first 6 months is a defect assumed to be a manufacturing defect, which is naturally the period with your strongest rights and when it’s easy to get a repair or replacement. After that, you need to argue quit…

depends perhaps on the part of the product? For example induction stovetops are notorious for just stopping to work seemingly at random, and thus if you call up and say hey it stopped working you might not get as much pushback.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#83

Post by ak_111 »

frellus wrote: post #46

The article focuses a lot on GE, however from my experience now most of the appliances are Bosh or LG from Korea. On the LG side, I feel like the quality has really gone downhill over the years. I had a GE washer which gave me 13 years of life -- not bad for $400. I replaced it with an LG now and already regretting it -- complicated controls which seem somewhat redundant, more electronics instead of just knobs to tur…

Genuine question why would you describe it as "Chinese garbage" if it worked perfectly? Are you referring to its aesthetics or the price? In both cases I don't think this adjective is merited...

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#84

Post by wtcactus »

Personal anecdote: I bought an expensive Samsung cloth dryer. The more recent ones with a heat pump together with the same segment, Samsung cloth washing machine.

The drier died after 3 years. Everything else worked by it didn't heat, so, it didn't dry.

I called someone to try to fix it, and they said the heat pump was gone and that they see a lot of that. He advised me to buy one that used the old technology of heating the air through an electric resistance. According to the repairman, those are way more reliable (problem is that, while I can live with the increased energy consumption, they need an external exhaust for the moisture).

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#85

Post by larsrc »

mjevans wrote: post #70
quatrefoil wrote: post #22

I mean, it's cool to pin it on manufacturers trying to increase margins, or on "planned obsolescence" - but a lot of it is our doing. We're willingly enabling it. There are manufacturers that make simple and serviceable appliances; for example, most Frigidaire fridges don't have cool-looking displays, wifi connectivity, and other bells and whistles. But how many Frigidaire products are sold every year, compared to LG…

Regulation fixes: Life cycle ownership: Just like handling hazmat in industrial processes is considered the ownership of the entity using the materials, so too should the waste stream resulting from the end of life of the product. Encourage products that are easy to dis-assemble into mostly parts that can be usefully recycled (used by someone else!) TCO and Right to Repair assistance. All service manuals and instruct…

> I would like to see PCs ship with a 'jumper' connected to a physical key position. Enabling that jumper would E.G. allow BIOS updates, including changing the installed / enabled list of allowed signing authorities, including locally provided options. Empower the end user

This would make most users never update their BIOSes, even for security fixes.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#86

Post by tuyiown »

moandcompany wrote: post #14

It's hard to maintain a revenue stream if your product is good enough to last, so the products are engineered to either be part of a subscription, to be replaced far sooner than necessary, or both. They're worried more about their revenue sustainability than they are actual product "sustainability." The "buy-it-for-life" brands ran into this problem because once you sell someone the classic product, they aren't going…

I suspect it is more an issue with the "do one thing and do it well" trope than anything else. A great team that can design and produce high quality that is valued as high price surely can diversify along the way, if the management sees it and invests.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#87

Post by oldpersonintx »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #21
moandcompany wrote: post #14

It's hard to maintain a revenue stream if your product is good enough to last, so the products are engineered to either be part of a subscription, to be replaced far sooner than necessary, or both. They're worried more about their revenue sustainability than they are actual product "sustainability." The "buy-it-for-life" brands ran into this problem because once you sell someone the classic product, they aren't going…

> hard to maintain a revenue stream if your product is good enough to last Servicing. High-end appliances seem to last just fine.

Nope, talk to appliance people and they will tell you all of the traditional high end brands are junk now too

I specifically did not call them "repair" people BTW since most have lapsed into doing mostly installs...it's not even worth it to repair today's s junk and most people just replace. Cost of parts and labor now can easily exceed replacement cost (by design obviously)

Maybe Speed Queen is the one exception. I've had folks explicitly single out Bosch as a brand people still mistakingly believe is high quality. Follow the supply chain...it all comes out of just a few factories with most parts shared.

There are no longer high quality brands, only high price. High price is usually just for the name or appearance.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#88

Post by lozenge »

wtcactus wrote: post #84

Personal anecdote: I bought an expensive Samsung cloth dryer. The more recent ones with a heat pump together with the same segment, Samsung cloth washing machine. The drier died after 3 years. Everything else worked by it didn't heat, so, it didn't dry. I called someone to try to fix it, and they said the heat pump was gone and that they see a lot of that. He advised me to buy one that used the old technology of heat…

What about the third option, a condenser dryer?

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#89

Post by jjav »

Tagbert wrote: post #16
davidmurdoch wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drive a 98 BMW, albeit with lots of maintenance (that I do my self). You think today's cars will last that long?

For sure. Most cars today are more reliable than cars 20-30 years ago. More cars are lasting well past 100K miles and often 200K miles. Sure you have some few cars that have survived since ‘98 but they are not numerous.

> More cars are lasting well past 100K miles and often 200K miles.

Cars have lasted over 100K since forever and 200K isn't a big deal.

All my cars from the 80s and 90s have over 200K miles.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#90

Post by wtcactus »

lozenge wrote: post #88
wtcactus wrote: post #84

Personal anecdote: I bought an expensive Samsung cloth dryer. The more recent ones with a heat pump together with the same segment, Samsung cloth washing machine. The drier died after 3 years. Everything else worked by it didn't heat, so, it didn't dry. I called someone to try to fix it, and they said the heat pump was gone and that they see a lot of that. He advised me to buy one that used the old technology of heat…

What about the third option, a condenser dryer?

I confess my ignorance about the topic.

What is the difference to the electric one? The process is the same up until the point where the hot air with the moisture passes to some sort of cold condenser to transform it back to liquid state? Doesn't the condenser use a heat pump to cold itself?

Post reply on HN