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The case against caffeine

zantafakari.substack.com

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Re: The case against caffeine

#81

Post by dahart »

quatrefoil wrote: post #10

A lot of dietary science is shaky, and I think we should accept that different people respond to various psychoactive substances differently. I don't have any reason to question the author's conclusions, nor doubt that others might have the same experience - even if it doesn't quite jibe with mine (I'm in this camp: https://twitter.com/danielcrosby/status/1534584565431296001 ). What doesn't sit with me is that the ar…

It’s fine if you’re bugged by the writing or argument style, but there is plenty of solid science on the side-effects of caffeine. It’s interesting that you criticize the author for being unscientific and then share a hyperbolic twitter anecdote and cast unsupported FUD on the science. The good science that we have always acknowledges that people respond differently, and yet we usually clump into a normal-ish distribution where the vast majority of people have very similar experiences, and we can quantify how similar and how often, and sometimes why there are deviations. Failing to acknowledge the similarities is as bad as failing to acknowledge the differences, scientifically speaking.

https://medlineplus.gov/caffeine.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Adverse_effects

Re: The case against caffeine

#82

Post by city41 »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #71

Another reason to not regularly use caffeine is that it can be an effective medication, especially in combination with other medications. Caffeine increases blood flow in the brain, so it can be effective for headaches, and it increases the absorption of other drugs like ibuprofen and acetaminophen. If caffeinated is your normal state, then it becomes much less effective at treating migraines, hangovers and other hea…

This site says just the opposite

> Caffeine narrows the blood vessels in your brain. Without it, your blood vessels widen.

https://www.healthline.com/health/headache/caffeine-withdraw...

Re: The case against caffeine

#83

Post by SantalBlush »

catchnear4321 wrote: post #11
swader999 wrote: post #4

High amounts shrink the brain, increase dementia risk. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1028415X.2021.19... And very few people drink 1-2 cups. The travel mugs and typical coffee place cups are close to this danger range.

so you’re saying that for big brain types the high doses might reduce the risk of brain squeeze, in cases of lack of sufficient space in the brain box. this is great news.

And if it makes more space for the brain, that should also reduce the risk of concussion. Sounds great to me.

Re: The case against caffeine

#84

Post by 1letterunixname »

It's the most widely-abused performance enhancing drug, but each person will need to assess the tradeoffs, long-term implications, and unknowns:

+ Productivity

+ Focus

+ Clarity

+ Symptomatic cure for migraines

~+ Probable neuroprotectiveness

~ Mild anorectic

~- Unclear GERD risks

~- Weak anticholinergic - probably not tardive dyskinesia or dementia, but the long-term effects are unclear

- Increased heart rate and blood pressure

- Diuretic

- Higher cortisol levels

- Dependency

- Tolerance

- Caffeine withdrawal headaches

- Slow caffeine metabolization (CYP1A2 rs762551 CC/CA) vs. fast (AA)

Re: The case against caffeine

#85

Post by IggleSniggle »

pama wrote: post #57
swader999 wrote: post #4

High amounts shrink the brain, increase dementia risk. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1028415X.2021.19... And very few people drink 1-2 cups. The travel mugs and typical coffee place cups are close to this danger range.

Of course non of the paper associations talks about causality, but lack of caffeine is probably a worse overall health association per this paper. More people don’t drink coffee at all than have more than 6 cups a day. From the paper: “The association between coffee consumption and dementia was non-linear (Pnon-linearity = 0.0001), with evidence for higher odds for non-coffee and decaffeinated coffee drinkers and tho…

Thank you. It seems rather likely to me that people that are more prone to dementia are more likely to be self-medicating with these very high caffeine intakes. Unfortunately I have only anecdata for this intuition, but if you drink these quantities and/or know anyone with experience with dementia, I think you know what I mean.

Re: The case against caffeine

#86

Post by eitland »

crazygringo wrote: post #75
richrichie wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is customary for me to enjoy an espresso (occasionally two) with a bar of dark chocolate after dinner. I sleep well not much later. 100s of thousands, if not millions, do this as a matter of culture.

But have you ever tried stopping caffeine and then comparing your sleep? What if you think you sleep well now, but it turns out you can sleep so much better? I'm not saying you will (I'm neither pro- nor anti-caffeine). But I am saying that unless you've tried it, you have no way of knowing. And I know lots of people who have improved their sleep in various ways, who thought they were sleeping normally/fine, and then…

I tried for a month I think.

I cut all coffeine I was aware of. Coffe, Pepsi Max, everything.

I felt no difference and noticed no change in my health tracking. The only thing I noticed was it was less social.

That said, there have been times were I had to cut down on coffee, but not because of sleep.

Re: The case against caffeine

#87

Post by Aeolun »

mgfist wrote: post #54
Swizec wrote: post #24

Important to note: Not everyone has the same reaction to caffeine. And not all caffeine hits the same. What it’s mixed with matters. The caffeine in tea, for example, doesn’t have as many anxiety inducing effects because you also get a bunch of L-theanine, which has a calming effect. To the point that many modern energy drinks have started adding it to their formula. Personally I sleep fine with or without caffeine.…

Can't underscore how much better you sleep if you've done a good amount of physical activity. Truly nothing is better than lying down after a day of physical labor.

Or physical playing. You don’t need to make it drudgery to get the benefits :)

Re: The case against caffeine

#89

Post by genocidicbunny »

crazygringo wrote: post #75
richrichie wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is customary for me to enjoy an espresso (occasionally two) with a bar of dark chocolate after dinner. I sleep well not much later. 100s of thousands, if not millions, do this as a matter of culture.

But have you ever tried stopping caffeine and then comparing your sleep? What if you think you sleep well now, but it turns out you can sleep so much better? I'm not saying you will (I'm neither pro- nor anti-caffeine). But I am saying that unless you've tried it, you have no way of knowing. And I know lots of people who have improved their sleep in various ways, who thought they were sleeping normally/fine, and then…

For lots of people, especially those with ADHD, a small dose of caffeine will help them fall asleep faster and sleep better. Instead of their brains bouncing around trying to fall asleep, the caffeine focuses it and let's them actually go to sleep relatively normally.

I personally have to make sure that if I consume caffeine in the morning, it's enough to overcome this paradoxical effect, otherwise I often end up falling back asleep.

Re: The case against caffeine

#90

Post by throw4847285 »

As my bipolar disorder got worse, caffeine became a non-starter. It's a real bummer. I still try to sneak in a diet coke or a green tea or two on a day when I'm very tired, but the result is inevitably a hypomanic episode right at bedtime. It sucks because I love the taste of good coffee, and decaf just doesn't cut it.
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