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Video generation models as world simulators

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81–90 of 171 posts

Re: Video generation models as world simulators

#81
post #26

The Minecraft demo makes me think that soon will be playing games directly from the output of one of these models, unlimited content.

While it seems plausible that eventually you could build a game around one of these models, the lack of an underlying state representation that you can permute in a precise way is a pretty strong barrier to anything resembling real user-and-system interaction. Even expressing pong through text prompts in a way that would produce desirable results in this is a tough challenge.

I could imagine a text adventure game with a 'visual' component perhaps working if you got the model to maintain enough consistency in spaces and character appearances.

Re: Video generation models as world simulators

#82

> Other interactions, like eating food, do not always yield correct changes in object state So this is why they haven't shown Will Smith eating spaghetti. > These capabilities suggest that continued scaling of video models is a promising path towards the development of highly-capable simulators of the physical and digital world This is exciting for robotics. But an even closer application would be filling holes in ga…

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Re: Video generation models as world simulators

#83

I like that this one shows some "fails", and not just the top of the top results: For example, the surfer is surfing in the air at the end: https://cdn.openai.com/tmp/s/prompting_7.mp4 Or this "breaking" glass that does not break, but spills liquid in some weird way: https://cdn.openai.com/tmp/s/discussion_0.mp4 Or the way this person walks: https://cdn.openai.com/tmp/s/a-woman-wearing-a-green-dress-a... Or wherever…

Where do you find the last two?

Re: Video generation models as world simulators

#84

Should I short all the 3d tool s/movies/vfx companies?

People working in vfx are incredibly gloomy today, they see the writing on the wall now, whether it's 1 or 5 years. There will still be a demand for human-created stuff but many of the jobs in advertising and stock footage will disappear.

Re: Video generation models as world simulators

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been dying for someone to make a Civilization AI. It might not be too crazy of an idea - would love to see a model fine-tuned on sequences of moves. The biggest limitation of video game AI currently is not theory, but hardware. Once home compute doubles a few more times, we’ll all be running GPT-4 locally and a competent Civilization AI starts to look realistic.

I think it's also a matter of "shape". Like, GPT4 solves one "shape" of problem, given tokens, predict the next token. That's all it does, that's the only problem it has to solve. A Civilization AI would have many problem "shapes". What do I research? Where do I build my city, what buildings do I build, how do I move my units, what units do I build, what improvements do I build, when do I declare war, what trade deal…

You can constrain LLMs (like LLAMA) to only output certain tokens that match some schema (e.g. valid code syntax).

I don't see why you can't get a LLM to output something like "research tech332; build city3 building24".

Re: Video generation models as world simulators

#86
People are obviously already pointing out the errors in various physical interactions shown in the demo videos, including the research team themselves, and I think the plausiblity of the generated videos will likely improve as they work on the model more. However, I think the major reason this generation -> simulation leap might be harder leap than they think is actually a plausibility/accuracy distinction. Generative models are general and versatile compared to predictive models, but they're intrinsically learning an objective that assesses its extrapolations on spatial or sequential (or in the case of video, both) plausibility, which has a lot more degrees of freedom than accuracy. In other words, the ability to create reasonable-enough hypotheses for what the next frame or the next pixel over could end up not being enough. The optimistic scenario is that it's possible to get to a simulation by narrowing this hypothesis-space enough to accurately model reality. In other words, it's possible that this is just something that could fall out of the plausibility being continuously improved, like the subset of plausible hypotheses shrinks as the model gets better, and eventually we get a reality-predictor, but I think there are good reasons to think that's far from guaranteed. I'd be curious to see what happens if you restrict training data to unaltered camera footage rather than allowing anything fictitious, but the least optimistic possibility is that this kind of capability is necessary but not sufficient for adequate prediction (or slightly more optimistically, can only do so with amounts of resolution that are currently infeasible, or something).

Some of the reasons the less optimistic scenarios seem likely is that the kinds of extrapolation errors this model makes are of similar character to those of LLMs: extrapolation follows a gradient of smooth apparent transitions rather than some underlying logic about the objects portrayed, and sometimes seems to just sort of ignore situations that are far enough outside of what it's seen rather than reconcile them. For example, the tidal wave/historical hall example is a scenario unlikely to have been in the training data. Sure, there's the funny bit at the end where the surfer appears to levitate in the air, but there's a much larger issue with how these two contrasting scenes interact, or rather fail to. What we see looks a lot more like a scene of surfing superimposed via photoshop or something on a still image of the hall, as there's no evidence of the water interacting with the seats or walls in the hall at all. The model will just roll with whatever you tell it to do as best it can, but it's not doing something like modeling "what would happen if" that implausible scenario played out, and even doing it poorly would be a better sign for this doing something like "simulating" the described scenario. Instead, we have impressive results for prompts that likely strongly correspond to scenes the model may have seen, and evidence of a lack of composition in cases where a particular composition is unlikely to have been seen and needs some underlying understanding of how it "would" work that is visible to us

Re: Video generation models as world simulators

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been dying for someone to make a Civilization AI. It might not be too crazy of an idea - would love to see a model fine-tuned on sequences of moves. The biggest limitation of video game AI currently is not theory, but hardware. Once home compute doubles a few more times, we’ll all be running GPT-4 locally and a competent Civilization AI starts to look realistic.

I am 100% certain that the training of such an AI will result in winning a game without ever building a single city* and 1,000 other exploits before being nerfbatted enough to play a 'real' game. (That doesn't mean I don't want to see the ridiculousness it comes up with!) * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CZEEvZqJC0

If you train the model purely based on win rate, sure. Fortunately, we can efficiently use RLHF to train a model to play in a human-like way and give entertaining matches.

Re: Video generation models as world simulators

#88

AlphaGo and AlphaZero were able to achieve superhuman performance due to the availability of perfect simulators for the game of Go. There is no such simulator for the real world we live in (although pure LLMs sort of learn a rough, abstract representation of the world as perceived by humans.) Sora is an attempt to build such a simulator using deep learning. “Our results suggest that scaling video generation models is…

Really interesting how this goes against my intuition. I would have imagined that it's infinitely easier to analyze a camera stream of the real world, then generate a polygonal representation of what you see (like you would do for a videogame) and then make AI decisions for that geometry. Instead the way that AI is going they rather skip it all and work directly on pixel data. Understanding of 3d geometry, perspectiv…

Another instance of the bitter lesson: http://www.incompleteideas.net/IncIdeas/BitterLesson.html

Re: Video generation models as world simulators

#89

Should I short all the 3d tool s/movies/vfx companies?

Arguably you should go long since once they integrate this into their products (as Adobe is doing) they have the distribution in place to monetise it, industry knowledge to combine it with existing workflows, etc.

Re: Video generation models as world simulators

#90

> Our results suggest that scaling video generation models is a promising path towards building general purpose simulators of the physical world. so they're gonna include the never-before-observed-but-predicted Unruh effect, as well? and other quantum theory? cool.. > For example, it does not accurately model the physics of many basic interactions, like glass shattering. ... oh Isn't all of the training predicated on…

The point isn't "physical simulator" like supercomputers, it's "physical simulator" like the human brain.
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