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Google has removed Conversations_im from the Play Store

gultsch.social

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Re: Google has removed Conversations_im from the Play Store

#81
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It solved "delayed notifications" for me, for certain: I still have original Samsung next to iPhone and it's clear as day: - iPhone rings, Samsung nothing - I wait few minutes just to be sure and pick up Samsung - immediately after picking it up the notification shows up, with the exact timestamp of the moment I picked it up That's why I called it a tangent to XMPP

Most android devices do that - sleep-state an application and it won't tell you anything until you actively pick up the device and use it. Been like that since I had my Kyocera DuraForce Pro on Android 6 or 7.

Yes, and there is an option to opt-out of that list. I did enable that.

I'll phrase my issue differently: Is there any way to have reliable notification delivery that are time critical? Is actually calling the only 100% reliable option, as the PagerDuty does?

Re: Google has removed Conversations_im from the Play Store

#82

XMPP as a protocol is pretty much dead on Android with all the battery optimisations in the newer versions. You can't get a decent user experience unless you integrate it with Firebase.

UnifiedPush distributors such as ntfy.sh seem to work pretty well, in my experience. They don't seem to affect battery life much (at least according to system graphs) and they work well.

Re: Google has removed Conversations_im from the Play Store

#83

Out of curiosity, where's xmpp still popular?

With privacy minded folks and people who think we should just agree on using the IETF internet standard for instant messaging instead of 5 different proprietary messaging apps and 3 apps based on experimental "open" protocols (which are ultimately controlled by a single entity and never standardized).

Re: Google has removed Conversations_im from the Play Store

#84

They did the same thing to our messaging app where I work. Claimed we were uploading contacts and removed our app; we definitely don't upload contacts, that's a fact; the infra is also self-hosted so where would we be uploading them to? They only way we got them to allow it back was to add a privacy-policy notice to say that we upload contacts and why, despite the fact we actually don't...

What a terrible outcome.

Re: Google has removed Conversations_im from the Play Store

#85
Relevant copypasta:

Fellow humans, there are alternatives to Google and Apple! Your neck need not be under anyone's boot! You don't even need to give up any functionality:

Data service:

The simplest thing is to buy a prepaid SIM and top it off with cash. The lovely people over at /r/nocontract maintain a big spreadsheet so you can filter by various properties of the available contracts.

Another way to go is to pay for a postpaid plan with a virtual credit card (VCC) like at privacy.com. It won't be linked to your name at the telco, but of course privacy.com knows who you are. There is also Abine Blur, and some others.

Yet a third way to go, which is nascent, is buy an eSIM with crypto. You can also buy prepaid VCCs with crypto.

An interesting new choice is PGPP https://invisv.com/pgpp/ who rotate your IMSI and do some other cool stuff. It works by e-sims.

All these methods make you /pseudo/nymous, but obviously you're still identifiable by subscriber number and possibly IMEI, to put aside correlational things like your traffic profile. You can help this problem by routing everything through a VPN. Then you're pseudonymous but the cell carrier knows nothing about you other than that you use a VPN. Pay for the VPN with crypto. Of course now the VPN provider knows your traffic, but you're much more anonymous to them than you are to a telco. You make your choices. Defense in depth. Etc.

OS:

GrapheneOS: https://grapheneos.org/ Very much like Calyx, but extra-hardened and with no MicroG. No involvement with Google at all by default. You can make a secondary profile in which you install Google Play Services to set up an environment where you can run unprivileged Play services + whatever crapware you need that requires them. Unprivileged here means it's like any other app: if you don't give it access to your location, it won't know where you are. If you end the profile session when you leave, Play Services stops running and stops talking to Google.

CalyxOS: https://calyxos.org/ Privacy-respecting Android distribution that replaces Google spyware with MicroG, so you can have your cake and eat it too. Most everything will work as you're used to, but it does still talk to Google to make that happen.

LineageOS: https://lineageos.org/ The successor to CyanogenMod, will work with many different phones. More privacy and control than stock Android.

There are also many others: Sailfish, Replicant, e

Hardware:

CalyxOS and GrapheneOS run best on Pixels. The path of least resistance is to get one of these phones and run GrapheneOS with Google Services installed in one profile or other.

You could also buy a Librem 5 https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ If privacy and security and hacking are really important to you.

Or a pinephone: https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/

Neither work very well by regular standards, but they're cool :-)

Re: Google has removed Conversations_im from the Play Store

#86

I use an open source SPAM call blocker (Yet another call blocker), which works fairly OK by querying a local spam phone number database. Recently Google Play decided to display a permanent notification prompting me to uninstall that "dangerous" app because it could "damage" my device. It's impossible to disable this notification. This app hasn't been updated in years. It has no ads. The only network request it makes…

I’m not an android user but from what I've understood is that Google is desperate to deprecate apps that were compiled for earlier Android SDKs before they introduced more iOS-style privacy APIs

Right, they had a deadline for apps that required them to update the target SDKs or the apps would be removed from the Store.

Mine was mid-last year. It was a huge pain, since my apps are really a PWA with a wrapper around it and is updated through the web. This means that I hadn't update the apps in the app store in a few years, as it wasn't necessary.

And of course, the wrapper I was using (cordova) didn't support some things from the new SDK, so I had to upgrade to a new major version. Anyway, it was a huge pain to upgrade all that for no functional changes for the end user, for the 10-ish open source apps I built and maintain.

Slightly off-topic, but Android does now support a much better method for submitting PWAs[1] that I'll move to the next time Android requires me to update the target SDK of every app. Hopefully, they'll continue supporting that and it won't require new submissions after that.

[1] https://developers.google.com/codelabs/pwa-in-play#0

Re: Google has removed Conversations_im from the Play Store

#87
post #66
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out the Aurora store, it's a drop in replacement for the play store withot the Google nonsense. I started using it after Google refused to let me install watch faces, because the apps hadn't been updated for foldable phones.

I would even go so far (as I recently said on Mastodon) that nowadays using Aurora over the Google Play Store is safer since it doesn't display ads for other apps just above the search results for the app one is looking for. If one isn't paying attention or running on autopilot (it happens) one might click on the ad and install some malware.

I completely agree. There are some serious dark patterns in the play store where scammers can buy top billing over the item you searched for, pushing the real app below the fold.

Google even allows this for banking apps.

Re: Google has removed Conversations_im from the Play Store

#88

XMPP as a protocol is pretty much dead on Android with all the battery optimisations in the newer versions. You can't get a decent user experience unless you integrate it with Firebase.

Besides what MattJ100 wrote above, by itself this is also not true. You can tell Android to not optimize Conversations and allow it to run in the background. It will work just fine with a (usually idle) TCP connection. But for the typical user, having to instruct them to do this is cumbersome, and integrating with Firebase is easier. It does come with its own concerns w.r.t. privacy, both for the payload as well as metadata exchanged.

Re: Google has removed Conversations_im from the Play Store

#89
post #49

I use an open source SPAM call blocker (Yet another call blocker), which works fairly OK by querying a local spam phone number database. Recently Google Play decided to display a permanent notification prompting me to uninstall that "dangerous" app because it could "damage" my device. It's impossible to disable this notification. This app hasn't been updated in years. It has no ads. The only network request it makes…

It has a pretty bad set of permissions, which are necessary for it to function, but still scary for Google algorithms. Google doesn't know that its GET request doesn't get orders from a botnet and leaks sensitive data the app has access to. Also, if the app hasn't been updated for years, chances are that it targets and outdated version of Android, which works, but is considered suspicions by Google as it is also a wa…

> Google doesn't know that its GET request doesn't get orders from a botnet and leaks sensitive data the app has access to.

And yet the only reason Google won't add internet access as a revocable permission is their ad business.

Chrome constantly scans your harddrive in a way you can't easily turn off, and it's not for your safety: it's for the safety of their ad business to try to catch malware that engages in click fraud. If you have media or backup drives it just constantly adds wear to them.

Re: Google has removed Conversations_im from the Play Store

#90

Relevant copypasta: Fellow humans, there are alternatives to Google and Apple! Your neck need not be under anyone's boot! You don't even need to give up any functionality: Data service: The simplest thing is to buy a prepaid SIM and top it off with cash. The lovely people over at /r/nocontract maintain a big spreadsheet so you can filter by various properties of the available contracts. Another way to go is to pay fo…

Not very relevant to Conversations. The app is available on F-Droid, no need to buy a new phone or install a alternative OS (even if you should). The point here is that this is a major blow to the developer whose income is dependent on Google Play purchases.
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