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28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

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Re: 28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

#81

Post by Sammi »

pbmonster wrote: post #40
mukundmr wrote: post #21

While 28 tonnes appears to be a lot of material for generating 1.2MW of energy, it compares favourably when you look at wind turbines. How often does this need maintenance though?

> How often does this need maintenance though? Moving parts in salt water? Frequently. The positive thing about this design is that maintenance is potentially much easier than on an seafloor mounted turbine: if the tether is long enough, you can just make the craft surface next to a maintenance vessel with a small crane. No divers necessary, and no giant crane platforms like for offshore wind turbines, either.

> No divers necessary, and no giant crane platforms like for offshore wind turbines, either.

This is critical to the economic viability of the project.

Re: 28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

#82

Post by Sammi »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #49
ksec wrote: post #42

Too good to be true? I assume this does no harm to fish. And electricity can be easily transported back to land ( there was no mention of how this was done in the video ). Since it is portable, small, fits into a 40ft Container. And you could mass manufacture these, ship it with container. There isn't another manufacturing problem and transportation problem like wind turbine. If Yes. You could have tens of thousands…

I will 100% guarantee that the unique brand by Brit NIMBY-ism will rise, and some of my fellow citizens will complain about them affecting the nesting habits of the migrating lesser-spotted blue crested greeb warbler or something, and that'll be that. It's happened to many wind projects, this won't be any different (despite there being no evidence). Never mind that if CO2 in the atmosphere continues to climb, all tho…

Production of the kites is partly in the UK and there are projects in the works to put them to use there: https://minesto.com/holyhead-deep/

Re: 28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

#83

Post by Sammi »

tamimio wrote: post #38

It’s just a matter of time before the orcas start playing spikeball with it, hopefully the team considered that.

Fortunately they are smart. They will learn fast. This isn't a new problem. Ships do get whales caught in the propellers from time to time. I was in a ship that had exactly this experience in 2001. Whole ship stopped and wouldn't start again until the third attempt to start it. A crew member reported he saw blood and guts at the stern.

Re: 28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

#84

Post by lloeki »

piaste wrote: post #45
lloeki wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we are being reckless and just want to use power until we figure out nuclear fusion or something better, let's say a million years or so, we can make some 180 PW from tides. But since it would almost all turn to heat, and since that is more energy than the Earth gets from the Sun, that would probably be unwise unless we find a way to get it off-planet with very high efficiency. I think you're touching on the pro…

I'm not sure those considerations are applicable. There is no "ecosystem" that depends on the rate of slowdown of Earth's rotation - we do need to leave some rotation to keep flora and fauna alive, but that's a "reservoir" problem, to use the OP's formulation, not an intensity one. As for the addition of energy (heat) to the planet, sure, but there's nothing specific about tidal energy here. All energy sources except…

> There is no "ecosystem" that depends on the rate of slowdown of Earth's rotation

I mean, raise acidic/temperature levels only so slightly and it kills off coral reef, which in turn destroys fauna that depends on it, leaving huge areas barren.

What I'm getting at is that small changes can have dramatic domino effects. Mass-scale tide dampening could have unforeseen effects.

Not saying any of the solutions are going to be a problem, merely that it's better to ask crazy questions about what happens when they ramp up at scale than handwave things away with uniform spherical cows.

Re: 28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

#86

Post by Sammi »

DrNosferatu wrote: post #66

The long-term projected levelized cost of the generated electricity really has to hit that $54/MWh target, otherwise the economics won't work - unless you absolutely must use some form of offshore energy production, then I guess it's an interesting niche application. It will be interesting to see.

The tides are always moving so this energy is much more useful as baseload energy. They will lessen the need for energy storage for wind and solar, making wind and solar even cheaper.

So tidal doesn't actually have to be as cheap as wind and solar by itself, as it will lower the total cost of wind and solar and be economically viable as a part of the mix.

If you're a company operating wind or solar, then you will be able to have a much smaller battery installation, by using tidal kites for most of the baseload instead. And the kites actually generate energy instead of just storing it.

Re: 28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

#87

Post by DrNosferatu »

Sammi wrote: post #86
DrNosferatu wrote: post #66

The long-term projected levelized cost of the generated electricity really has to hit that $54/MWh target, otherwise the economics won't work - unless you absolutely must use some form of offshore energy production, then I guess it's an interesting niche application. It will be interesting to see.

The tides are always moving so this energy is much more useful as baseload energy. They will lessen the need for energy storage for wind and solar, making wind and solar even cheaper. So tidal doesn't actually have to be as cheap as wind and solar by itself, as it will lower the total cost of wind and solar and be economically viable as a part of the mix. If you're a company operating wind or solar, then you will be…

This system, as presented, will be really prone to *mechanical wear*. Maybe it can be done, but I need to see long-term (price & reliability) performance to believe it.

Re: 28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

#88

Post by Sammi »

hoseja wrote: post #44
usrusr wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The good news is that we do have a bit of experience with metal machines that operate in sea water for decades. We (as in humanity, I don't) know exactly what to expect. You'd want to have a permanent service operation scaled exactly to how much overhauling capacity you need to put the tide kites in a round robin maintenance loop.

And yet, every other tidal powerplant has been rendered hopelessly useless by barnacles.

We are perfectly capable of removing barnacles from ship hulls. What makes these kite hulls different?

These are just fancy boats you know.

Re: 28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

#89

Post by rsynnott »

mukundmr wrote: post #21

While 28 tonnes appears to be a lot of material for generating 1.2MW of energy, it compares favourably when you look at wind turbines. How often does this need maintenance though?

> While 28 tonnes appears to be a lot of material for generating 1.2MW of energy

Really? I was thinking the _opposite_; look at the size of hydro and conventional tidal plants.

A 1.5MW on-shore wind turbine (which generates less energy in practice as the wind isn't constant) weighs about 150 tonnes.

Even a 1MW diesel generator weighs about 10 tonnes (obviously not including fuel infrastructure).

Re: 28-ton, 1.2-megawatt tidal kite is now exporting power to the grid

#90

Post by methyl »

gambiting wrote: post #80
methyl wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m really surprised by this data. In Poland, it’s around 2000 kWh/year, which is 6kWh/day - 5 times less!

Ok, but what do you actually use? I have a very small 3-bed house in the UK, and over the last few months we've been averaging 1100-1200kWh of electricity per month(and we heat using gas, although we do have an electric car).

It's not me, I'm talking about average for Polish houselhold
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