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Will satellite megaconstellations weaken earth's magnetic field?

spaceweatherarchive.com

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Re: Will satellite megaconstellations weaken earth's magnetic field?

#81
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name? AFAIK those things didn't have names. The 70s and 80s were filled with huge insect plagues on Asia, Africa and South America that disrupted the agriculture of several countries.

> The 70s and 80s were filled with huge insect plagues on Asia, Africa and South America that disrupted the agriculture of several countries. And had nothing to do with DDT. If you’re thinking there was widespread ecological harm from pesticides, we didn’t stop using pesticides people swapped to different pesticides.

And yet, they mostly stopped happening since DDT and a few other pesticides stopped being used.

Re: Will satellite megaconstellations weaken earth's magnetic field?

#82

First thought that struck me was the Star Trek Episode where the scientist found out Warp Drive was weakening space-time, so that it could 'rip open'. The scientist were shunned, but eventually did prove it. But even then, the Federation could not "stop" using warp drive. It was one of first instances I saw that even in Star Trek, with all the high ideals, once confronted with something that would shut down progress…

> can't even fantasize about humans coming together to solve a civilization ending threat

You'll enjoy the Three Body Problem trilogy.

Re: Will satellite megaconstellations weaken earth's magnetic field?

#83
post #52
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America’s per capita CO2 emissions are down 6.6 tons (31%) per person just from 2000. That's a completely wrong way to look at it. A country can lower its emissions by outsourcing the activities that make them. Do I have to elaborate on what America could have been outsourcing to China since 2000? The per capita C02 emissions, assuming that you don't ignore all of those that happen outside the country , have kept i…

> could have been outsourcing to China since 2000? No need to guess. You can actually look at what was imported and exported and it’s nowhere close to making up that gap. 2.2 Billion tons / year isn’t difficult to track down. > I would argue that it is not being actively addressed at all. Coal is dying, oil and natural gas aren’t nearly as plentiful. Even if you assume we’re going to extract all the oil and natural g…

> You can actually look at what was imported and exported

You will have to elaborate on that. Do you mean that somewhere, online, are listed all the INDIRECT emissions of everything that was imported? Where?

> 2.2 Billion tons / year isn’t difficult to track down.

It's not like a country imports parcels of CO2, how do you think it works? If we could track down the CO2 emissions of goods, we could write it on the packaging and let people choose the one they want.

But we can't, because it's everything but simple.

> Even if you assume we’re going to extract all the oil and natural gas that exists the worst case is net zero by 2100

You do realize that it is still largely enough CO2 to make large portions of Earth (around the equator) literally unliveable for humans? Meaning that billions of people will have to relocate, meaning global instability, wars and famines absolutely everywhere, right?

Re: Will satellite megaconstellations weaken earth's magnetic field?

#84

Plasma physicist here. While this is an idea worthy of study, the answer to the (spaceweatherarchive.com) title question is "no". The researcher's article makes simple errors in what they call " undergraduate physics" (electricity and magnetism), in basic plasma physics, and in basic algebra. As one straightforward example, their estimate of the (change in) Debye length ignores that their equations (2 and 3) are in t…

[deleted]

Re: Will satellite megaconstellations weaken earth's magnetic field?

#85
post #4

I for one would like to see the satellites modified with a heat shield so they could punch through and hit a designated deorbit zone. I would even offer my backyard, but I fear it's too small. Wouldn't that be the ultimate tourist attraction? "Witness the next deorbit round tomorrow at Crater Park Observatory!"

Nifty idea. But don’t satellites have toxic components? While most of it will be burnt up some bits get to the ground. Satellites are made from material, and can’t be safely disassembled. Rentry is uncontrolled incineration, depending on a large part of the pollutants being diluted across the sky, and the ground and water on which they fall. Background levels would rise.

>While most of it will be burnt up some bits get to the ground

Starlink satellites are designed to be fully demised, which means that _nothing_ gets to the ground.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/spacex-claims-to-have-redesigned-i...

Re: Will satellite megaconstellations weaken earth's magnetic field?

#86

First thought that struck me was the Star Trek Episode where the scientist found out Warp Drive was weakening space-time, so that it could 'rip open'. The scientist were shunned, but eventually did prove it. But even then, the Federation could not "stop" using warp drive. It was one of first instances I saw that even in Star Trek, with all the high ideals, once confronted with something that would shut down progress…

> can't even fantasize about humans coming together to solve a civilization ending threat You'll enjoy the Three Body Problem trilogy.

Man. I did read it. And it was super depressing and scary. The first book was really calm compared to how dark they got later.

Re: Will satellite megaconstellations weaken earth's magnetic field?

#87
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 70s and 80s were filled with huge insect plagues on Asia, Africa and South America that disrupted the agriculture of several countries. And had nothing to do with DDT. If you’re thinking there was widespread ecological harm from pesticides, we didn’t stop using pesticides people swapped to different pesticides.

And yet, they mostly stopped happening since DDT and a few other pesticides stopped being used.

It stopped happening because pesticide use increased. https://ourworldindata.org/pesticides

Alongside global transportation networks that can efficiently make up for local issues.

Re: Will satellite megaconstellations weaken earth's magnetic field?

#88

Sometimes it seems like some people have a pathological need to be a doomer about any human activity. See also: "Kessler syndrome" doomerism about LEO satellites, the debris of which would only be a concern for a few years.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something. Do you have some specific refutation to the arguments made in this article? Otherwise, it's unclear what the value of your comment is - you could literally make it about any claim of any side effect of any technology!

Doesn’t come off as shallow or a dismissal of the work. Maybe tangential, but OP is just voicing their disapproval of the common tendency to dismiss new ideas, often motivated by fear or stubbornness rather than a real and unsolvable problem with the idea. The comment is critical, and at worst it implies the article fell into an unfortunate pattern.

> You could literally make it about any claim of any side effect of any technology!

Agreed.

Edit: after RTFA, I definitely get how both OP’s and my comment could be seen as unnecessary.

Re: Will satellite megaconstellations weaken earth's magnetic field?

#89
post #83
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> could have been outsourcing to China since 2000? No need to guess. You can actually look at what was imported and exported and it’s nowhere close to making up that gap. 2.2 Billion tons / year isn’t difficult to track down. > I would argue that it is not being actively addressed at all. Coal is dying, oil and natural gas aren’t nearly as plentiful. Even if you assume we’re going to extract all the oil and natural g…

> You can actually look at what was imported and exported You will have to elaborate on that. Do you mean that somewhere, online, are listed all the INDIRECT emissions of everything that was imported? Where? > 2.2 Billion tons / year isn’t difficult to track down. It's not like a country imports parcels of CO2, how do you think it works? If we could track down the CO2 emissions of goods, we could write it on the pack…

No need for that kind of grunt work, plenty of people have wandered that before you. China trade alone has a smaller impact so here’s numbers based on total net imports - exports: https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2

In 2000 US emissions totaled 6.01 billion tons vs 6.25 billion in terms of consumption.

In 2021 that then drops to 5.03 billion tons total vs 5.57 billion in terms of consumption.

To scale per capita numbers divide 6.25 B / 281.4 million in 2000 and then multiple by 331.8 million in 2021. Which suggests 7.4 B T if we had done nothing vs 5.57 = a gap of 1.8 B tons over a shorter period.

> You do realize that it is still largely enough CO2 to make large portions of Earth (around the equator) literally unliveable for humans? Meaning that billions of people will have to relocate, meaning global instability, wars and famines absolutely everywhere, right?

The projections that suggest larger areas become uninhabitable assume massive contributions of CO2 from coal which are already unrealistic. Roughly half the the words coal is being burned in China but they are transitioning fast. “In 2020, China committed to have 1,200 GW of renewables capacity by 2030, but is on track to meet that goal five years early.” They added 216 GW of solar PV in 2023 alone, meanwhile demand is increasing by around 6% / year, so rather than just slow coal power plant construction it’s looking like they are going to start significantly curtailing coal electric production in 2024.

It’s said that 1.5C assumes China will end coal use by 2060, but the sooner they start cutting the longer they have to finish.

Re: Will satellite megaconstellations weaken earth's magnetic field?

#90

First thought that struck me was the Star Trek Episode where the scientist found out Warp Drive was weakening space-time, so that it could 'rip open'. The scientist were shunned, but eventually did prove it. But even then, the Federation could not "stop" using warp drive. It was one of first instances I saw that even in Star Trek, with all the high ideals, once confronted with something that would shut down progress…

It was a realistic response, and an episode years ahead of its time in its climate change allegory (several years ahead of an inconvienent truth for example)

Alas aside from a couple of references later in S7 of TNG, trek then decided to handwave a technical solution in the background and we never heard of the problem again.

Indeed Trek in later years (Picard season 2) also said that climate change in the Trek universe was solved by magical microbes from Europa.

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