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I also hacked my car

goncalomb.com

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Re: I also hacked my car

#81

Post by pvaldes »

seagulls wrote: post #64
pvaldes wrote: post #24

And then you move the car to the maker for a simple maintenance task and, surprise bill.

Complete nonsense. The fact I disabled OnStar on my vehicles, for example, is an interesting point of conversation only when I bring them in for an oil change. They happily show me the diagnostic codes it produces and could not care less about it, nor could I.

Your mileage may vary. Each brand is different.

The idea of "Hacking" cars feels great until you realize that this cars are driving in the same road as you

Hobbyist car hackers is a group filled with overconfidence, and overconfidence can lead easily to a hell of pain and a million of ways to shoot yourself in the face. Because electronic sensors tend to be connected with other sensors, that are connected with many other unsuspected things, and those last things can be more important that it seems.

Re: I also hacked my car

#82

Post by LoganDark »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #59
LoganDark wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reminder that those who bought it, voted for it. I truly loathe this argument. I've seen it for cars, seen it for laptops, seen it for mobile devices. For years. People like you really think not purchasing the bad will fix stuff like this? Purchasing decisions let you pick between competitors. That is all. You can't pick the open-source car that does not exist, unless you want to start your own car company just to…

> Nobody who buys the car is voting for it to spy on them, unless I guess their hypothetical dystopian future insurance gives them a bonus/discount for allowing them to view the data from the vehicle and they're actually okay with that. This is not the future, it is today. https://www.progressive.com/auto/discounts/snapshot/ https://www.geico.com/driveeasy/ https://www.allstate.com/drivewise https://www.amica.com/con…

> This is not the future, it is today.

Those are mobile apps that don't integrate with the actual vehicle.

Re: I also hacked my car

#83

Post by lotsofpulp »

LoganDark wrote: post #82
lotsofpulp wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody who buys the car is voting for it to spy on them, unless I guess their hypothetical dystopian future insurance gives them a bonus/discount for allowing them to view the data from the vehicle and they're actually okay with that. This is not the future, it is today. https://www.progressive.com/auto/discounts/snapshot/ https://www.geico.com/driveeasy/ https://www.allstate.com/drivewise https://www.amica.com/con…

> This is not the future, it is today. Those are mobile apps that don't integrate with the actual vehicle.

At least Progressive have an option for a device that connects to the ODB2 port. But either way, the system of discounts in exchange for more accurate driving data already exists. It is just a matter of a business deal working out between the automakers and insurance company to have it built in.

Although, I do not see it as necessary. Cars with cameras will automatically start having lower insurance premiums, and so you will see people opt to buy cars with cameras (eliminating the inconvenience of having to install a dash cam by yourself).

Re: I also hacked my car

#84

Post by tyingq »

numpad0 wrote: post #54
tyingq wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming the head unit isn't DRM locked to a specific VIN, etc. That's then extra cost to chase that rabbit trail.

The one taken off your car to be recycled could be, the new one cannot be because you DYOR and install a compatible third party unit.

Context of the parent was buying a spare OEM unit from a junkyard for experimenting.

Third party can be a money pit also. Like a volume knob that controls the factory amp via canbus rather than the fixed output level head unit. And the amp is conveniently not close to the head unit. And, mentioned elsewhere, but additional stuff for steering wheel controls, car data that the OEM head unit displayed (mpg, trip meter, etc).

Re: I also hacked my car

#85

Post by nextlevelwizard »

rascul wrote: post #80
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such as?

Oil change

You definitely do not need to go to the manufacturer for oil change. If you can’t change your cars oil yourself you can go to literally any car shop to get it changed for pretty cheap

Re: I also hacked my car

#86

Post by nextlevelwizard »

pvaldes wrote: post #79
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such as?

Such as guarantees, recalls, offers, campaigns, financing, leasing, standard maintenance, buying original parts, upgrading software, downloading GPS maps, resetting the addblue, refilling your particle filter liquid, changing belts, buying extra power for some time... I thing that the term is pretty self-explainable. Every support that the customer could request from the brand after the sale. Some of this things can…

Most of these can be provided by any car shop (usually a lot cheaper than the manufacturer) and you don’t need to involve the manufacturer and rest are not things any normal person cares about.

Re: I also hacked my car

#87

Post by mdp2021 »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #53
mdp2021 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People like you really think not purchasing the bad will fix stuff like this? Well yes, certainly. A market exists because it has buyers - without them, it withers. And a market exists because there is a need, that producers will ride. «if nobody bought the car», they would not produce it. > If you don't buy any car at all, then you simply don't exist to them So you misunderstood the proposed idea. It is not the in…

There is plenty of blame to go around. From corporate owners, through captured regulators to end users. Between all those parties I think the ones that have to choose between grades of shit are the least to blame. This does not absolve consumers, but it does put into question the framing you presented.

> this does not absolve consumers, but it does put into question the framing you presented

Allow me: it extends the framework presented (we could also mentions faults in other parties, were we not addressing one specific part), but I do not see how it would «put it into question». As you say, it «does not absolve consumers».

«There is plenty of blame», which does not absolve John. And John gives signals that he is holding resistance against seeing it...

Re: I also hacked my car

#88

Post by pvaldes »

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #86
pvaldes wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such as guarantees, recalls, offers, campaigns, financing, leasing, standard maintenance, buying original parts, upgrading software, downloading GPS maps, resetting the addblue, refilling your particle filter liquid, changing belts, buying extra power for some time... I thing that the term is pretty self-explainable. Every support that the customer could request from the brand after the sale. Some of this things can…

Most of these can be provided by any car shop (usually a lot cheaper than the manufacturer) and you don’t need to involve the manufacturer and rest are not things any normal person cares about.

> Most of these can be provided by any car shop

But not all. I had never meet a single car owner that spend solid money in their new car and then decline the maker guarantee, but your definition of what is "normal people" may differ from mine.

Re: I also hacked my car

#89

Post by LoganDark »

mdp2021 wrote: post #33
LoganDark wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reminder that those who bought it, voted for it. I truly loathe this argument. I've seen it for cars, seen it for laptops, seen it for mobile devices. For years. People like you really think not purchasing the bad will fix stuff like this? Purchasing decisions let you pick between competitors. That is all. You can't pick the open-source car that does not exist, unless you want to start your own car company just to…

> People like you really think not purchasing the bad will fix stuff like this? Well yes, certainly. A market exists because it has buyers - without them, it withers. And a market exists because there is a need, that producers will ride. «if nobody bought the car», they would not produce it. > If you don't buy any car at all, then you simply don't exist to them So you misunderstood the proposed idea. It is not the in…

> This makes it sound like "some people will trade decency for items that they see as nicer". That is plain sinister.

I don't see how it's sinister at all to say that. I hate Windows, but I use it because I no longer have access to macOS, and nothing works on Linux. Am I sinister for "voting" for Windows even though it lacks decency? It is currently the least bad option for me, that is all. The value in having a working computer is greater than the value in perpetually stressing myself out over whether things are free and libre or not.

Ensuring the absolute purity of my personal supply chain is too much of a pathetic chore for me to want to care about. I really, really do not care if that nice Tesla I may buy in 10 years tracks my every move, receives random OTA updates, makes me pay a subscription fee to use the hardware that's already installed in the vehicle, and so on. What if I just wanted a nice EV and nobody else does it right?? What am I going to do, buy a Rivian instead?

Re: I also hacked my car

#90

Post by nextlevelwizard »

pvaldes wrote: post #88
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of these can be provided by any car shop (usually a lot cheaper than the manufacturer) and you don’t need to involve the manufacturer and rest are not things any normal person cares about.

> Most of these can be provided by any car shop But not all. I had never meet a single car owner that spend solid money in their new car and then decline the maker guarantee, but your definition of what is "normal people" may differ from mine.

Thinnest of fucking arguments. Sure if there is a mechanical fault and you get your shit replaced, but are you really arguing that you shouldn’t hack your infotainment fir the off chance that your car has manufacturing defect?

Go touch some grass

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