U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022) • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#81

Post by wiseowise » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 7:30 AM UTC

halJordan wrote: post #52

klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

The problem is that a high school education represents literally years of knowledge a person has accumulated. People not having that knowledge means they will not be able to participate. It's not about whether they will be smart enough to learn; it's about the fact that they will have to be taught. There's no foundation to build on, there's no axiomatic knowledge we can rely on. People who haven't graduated high scho…

> People who haven't graduated high school are inferior.

So they’re inferior because they didn’t receive some paper? What if they dropped out of last class?

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#82

Post by thaumasiotes » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 7:32 AM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #59

ThisIsMyAltAcct wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not 2003 anymore. Current and likely-upcoming wars are very important.

It may not be 2003 any longer, but what happened then is still reverberating. Seeing the US military and so many lives just get utterly squandered running imperial errands for the president's daddy's friends. Who wouldn't strongly discourage their own kids from putting themselves in such a vulnerable position, or be skeptical of the claim that the next war might actually be important? Similarly so much of Russia's cu…

> it's all too easy to pigeonhole what actually appears to be reasonable support for a would-be ally into the same bag.

This seems to imply that Soviet intervention into an American war declared over the Cuban Missile Crisis would have been fairly characterized as "reasonable support for a would-be [in this case, already formalized] ally".

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#83

Post by ken47 » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 7:34 AM UTC

halJordan wrote: post #52

klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

The problem is that a high school education represents literally years of knowledge a person has accumulated. People not having that knowledge means they will not be able to participate. It's not about whether they will be smart enough to learn; it's about the fact that they will have to be taught. There's no foundation to build on, there's no axiomatic knowledge we can rely on. People who haven't graduated high scho…

Unless you're passing honors and AP classes in HS, the knowledge gained by simply graduating does not give a strong signal about superiority / inferiority for military purposes.

Granted the Army will have to work harder on average to train these people, but some learn better outside of the traditional classroom.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#84

Post by quickslowdown » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 7:34 AM UTC

julienreszka wrote: post #67

halJordan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that a high school education represents literally years of knowledge a person has accumulated. People not having that knowledge means they will not be able to participate. It's not about whether they will be smart enough to learn; it's about the fact that they will have to be taught. There's no foundation to build on, there's no axiomatic knowledge we can rely on. People who haven't graduated high scho…

[flagged]

Your nonsense is unwelcome here, please stay on topic, it sucks scrolling through threads and hearing interesting debate about a topic, only to have someone interject with bait/non sequiturs.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#85

Post by thaumasiotes » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 7:35 AM UTC

b4ke wrote: post #57

atmavatar wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little worried that if we implement the "service guarantees citizenship" scheme you allude to, we'll be forced to fight a war against an interstellar insect race soon after.

No I didn’t say that or allude to it, voluntary conscripted amnesty. They would still have to naturalize as well, and only offer that after a sufficient period of service and all the rigors of training, ait, and actual term. Do you believe we are not already having an inter-domain/dimensional information war with something of a nature you describe? (Kind of kidding)

>> if we implement the "service guarantees citizenship" scheme you allude to

> No I didn’t say that or allude to it

Did you forget what you put in your own comment?

>>> There would be no need for sign-on bonus, you could add additional qualifications for g.i. benefits in the form of naturalization.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#86

Post by solatic » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 7:35 AM UTC

halJordan wrote: post #52

klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

The problem is that a high school education represents literally years of knowledge a person has accumulated. People not having that knowledge means they will not be able to participate. It's not about whether they will be smart enough to learn; it's about the fact that they will have to be taught. There's no foundation to build on, there's no axiomatic knowledge we can rely on. People who haven't graduated high scho…

> There's no foundation to build on, there's no axiomatic knowledge we can rely on.

Did you serve in the military? I'm wondering what axiomatic knowledge taught in 12th or 11th grade, exactly, that you think military training depends on.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#87

Post by thaumasiotes » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 7:36 AM UTC

hayst4ck wrote: post #60

I am a well educated individual. I did not have to work very hard at all for a well paying job after college from a respected company. I have skill sets that are absolutely in demand, particularly in areas the military would like. When China re-colonized Hong Kong I gave strong thought to joining the military. When Russia invaded Ukraine, I similarly felt called to join the military, if not to fight for Ukraine, to p…

> When China re-colonized Hong Kong I gave strong thought to joining the military.

In 1997?

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#88

Post by admissionsguy » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 7:39 AM UTC

halJordan wrote: post #52

klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

The problem is that a high school education represents literally years of knowledge a person has accumulated. People not having that knowledge means they will not be able to participate. It's not about whether they will be smart enough to learn; it's about the fact that they will have to be taught. There's no foundation to build on, there's no axiomatic knowledge we can rely on. People who haven't graduated high scho…

Participate in what?

Axiomatic knowledge? Perhaps in maths and science. The rest is different in various countries, so surely cannot form some universal knowledge base.

And in maths/science, a typical high school or even non-technical medium-end college graduate has ~zero skills or knowledge, so that cannot be a factor either.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#89

Post by AmVess » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 7:39 AM UTC

bsder wrote: post #77

klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

I suspect the real issue is that a high school diploma doesn't represent a signal anymore at the low end. Many failing students simply got passed through grade to grade. If a high school diploma has no value as a signal, requiring it throws out eligible people for no reason whatsoever.

^ This.

Schools are doing a piss-poor job of educating people. Only 20% of schools can muster a 70% proficiency score, with the vast majority being much worse.

What this indicates is a startlingly large number of students are receiving an education that holds no value whatsoever.

Further, as already mentioned by someone else, the military will still use its own test as a means to determine where to place a recruit.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#90

Post by Dalewyn » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 7:39 AM UTC

halJordan wrote: post #52

klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

The problem is that a high school education represents literally years of knowledge a person has accumulated. People not having that knowledge means they will not be able to participate. It's not about whether they will be smart enough to learn; it's about the fact that they will have to be taught. There's no foundation to build on, there's no axiomatic knowledge we can rely on. People who haven't graduated high scho…

>The problem is that a high school education represents literally years of knowledge a person has accumulated.

A high school diploma only signifies the individual was approved by the indoctrination of public education, unless you're the handful that had private or homeschooling which still doesn't mean much academically (see below).

Incidentally, in the US we have what's called the GED[1]. The GED can be taken at any time without any requirement for prior education, and passing the GED is equivalent to graduating high school.

So no, a high school education in the US does not represent "literally years of knowledge".[2]

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Educational_Developmen...

[2]: I'm a GED graduate, and I can tell you its contents are roughly equivalent to elementary schooling in most other countries. I can also tell you that is what a high school diploma represents in the US, academic wise, because they are the same. If you can calculate 1+1=2 and speak basic English, you are an American high school graduate.