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You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

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Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#81

Post by shiroiuma »

alephnan wrote: post #39
wegfawefgawefg wrote: post #6

You know what japan always does though? They always respond to applications. Theres no instant automated rejection email. Theres no getting ghosted by 90% of companies. Pay is bad though.

> They always respond to applications. That's not true. YC startup Tailor, the first (and only?) Japan startup that YC funded, left me on read on LinkedIn. They ignored my application without a response, too. Pretty confident this company discriminates against non-Japanese. To be fair, the whole American tech culture of inclusitivity is not really a thing in Japan or most Asian countries. My freind works as a designe…

>Pretty confident this company discriminates against non-Japanese.

Why do you think that? Was the job requisition in English? Did it ask for Japanese proficiency? If the answers are "yes" and "no", respectively, then it's very unlikely they're discriminating against non-Japanese for that job. If they don't want to hire non-Japanese, they'll simply post the job in Japanese only, or put "Japanese language proficiency (N2 or better)" or something like that in the ad. The reality is that not that many companies have an English working environment; this is a country where the national language is Japanese, and not that many people speak English well, after all.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#82

Post by coldtea »

SoftTalker wrote: post #51
JKCalhoun wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We (at Apple) interviewed a guy who was about my age (and I was already in my 50's at that time, ha ha). The interview(s) went great as far as I could suss but when we, the interviewers, met to go around and give the potential hire a thumbs up or thumbs down — one guy on our team was decidedly thumbs down. Why was he thumbs down? "I don't think he's a good fit for the team." When pressed for what that means he simply…

There might be reasons you want to avoid hiring older software devs. I'm in my 50s. I've been through the death marches, the unrealistic goals, the 60-hour weeks, the last minute emergencies, the all-nighters trying to get a release out or trying to recover from the fallout of a poorly tested release. I won't do it anymore. Nobody I know who is my age will do that anymore. There's almost nothing that will keep me at…

All of the above should be illegal across the industry: "the 60-hour weeks, the last minute emergencies, the all-nighters", except for specific stuff on-call for an emergency (and paid overtime respectively or hired for night shifts, e.g. in case of datacenter stuff).

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#83

Post by coldtea »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #47
alephnan wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a case where statistics could prove of systemic discrimination and statistical anomalies

They can prove statistical anomalies, sure. But no amount of statistics can prove discrimination (contrary to popular belief these days).

With the right laws, a company could still be fined if they don't meet age percentage quota, so there's that.

"Hmm, all your hires are < 30 huh? OK, we don't care if you intended to discriminate or not, here's the fine".

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#84

Post by coldtea »

staunton wrote: post #13
barbazoo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pay is bad though I wonder if that is in any way correlated to this: > Gov't study finds only 3,065 homeless people in Japan https://japantoday.com/category/national/gov%27t-study-finds...

First, that number is most probably understated. Second, your comment could be interpreted as saying that counties with high pay have (or should have) a lot of homeless people, which seems insane. So what did you mean?

>Second, your comment could be interpreted as saying that counties with high pay have (or should have) a lot of homeless people, which seems insane.

Does it? Countries with high inequality I'd expect to have a lot of homeless people.

Except if you mean countries with high pay across the board. So how does that work, everybody gets high wages, and companies can afford it and hire the same number of people, (instead of the case of splitting wages more equally)?

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#85

Post by coldtea »

callalex wrote: post #57
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unemployment is just one factor in homelessness. Other factors are drugs (Japan is much more stricter), home availability (Japan has much less NIBMYies), etc.

Also most importantly the ability for the state to declare you mentally unfit and hold you against your will.

So, this happens a lot if Japan? Examples?

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#86

Post by coldtea »

thfuran wrote: post #43
simonsarris wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have bad news about the demographic pyramid of nearly every country...

Africa exists.

Well, I have bad news about the technological preparedness and infrastracture of almost all African countries.

Except if you mean outside IT hires.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#87

Post by coldtea »

tarxvf wrote: post #9
whatyesaid wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Age is pretty easily guessable by degree dates and your appearance, they don't need to ask it explicitly.

More than that, too. I bet you could guess my age within 2 years with solely a list of technology I've used. I don't think it would even have to be sorted by date.

>I bet you could guess my age within 2 years with solely a list of technology I've used

You could always not list "Expert on Symbolics machines, Smalltalk, Algol 68" and keep the newer/evergreen stuff.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#88

Post by coldtea »

ensignavenger wrote: post #20
whatyesaid wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Age is pretty easily guessable by degree dates and your appearance, they don't need to ask it explicitly.

Fortunately for me, I finished my degree much later in life than most folks. Pretty sure I could pass myself off as being at least 10 years younger than I am in a job hunt. Though we could just normalize leaveing graduation dates off of resumes... I dont6think that is especially relevant for most jobs.

>Pretty sure I could pass myself off as being at least 10 years younger than I am in a job hunt.

Until you get an in person or zoom interview.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#89

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

zeroCalories wrote: post #56
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #19

In the company I worked for, it actually went the other way, from the US. There were levels and positions that were only available to employees of certain chronological ages (or above). I remember doing some fancy footwork, trying to get particularly bright younger engineers into positions of greater responsibility. They did force you to retire at 60, though. I suspect that is an artifact of their "full employment" s…

If we're working on a serious project(not tinder for dogs), I want to staff my senior positions with people that have tons of experience, not someone super bright. More broadly, I think the problem with age discrimination is a problem with engineers that have 30 years of experience doing unimpressive things. For an IC code monkey I would definitely prefer someone younger with a lot of energy and potential to grow. No…

Preaching to the choir, here. If you know much about me, you know that SV’s ageism is one of my biggest peeves. I feel that many of these jurassic-scale disasters, we hear about, are likely the direct result of inexperienced, impulsive, decisions, made with no adults In the room.

I just feel that each employee should be managed as an individual; an attitude that doesn’t mesh well, with today’s business culture.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#90

Post by manfre »

cubefox wrote: post #40
tetrisgm wrote: post #21

In the next 10 to 15 years, tech is going to have a lot of millennial who reach 50+. We'll have a similar challenge in the US where tech culture leans towards hyping youth, and the new reality.

If the AI progress in the next 10 to 15 years will be like the AI progress in the last 10 to 15 years, tech culture will no longer hype youth anyway, or human employees in general.

With companies backpedaling on self checkout, I think the no human employees future is unlikely.
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