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Why are Alaska's rivers turning orange?

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Why are Alaska's rivers turning orange?

#81
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does not come for free. If China can at the same time use cheaper cost of production to compete against countries that have to increase their cost then other countries will loose. In both scenario everybody loses in the end but in the first scenario China will come out on top until then. The only winnable long term strategy is when China will play along all the time.

There will be no savings nor winners is no one moves a finger. Doing nothing will have infinite cost.

America with more stringent environmental laws will do more to combat carbon emissions, and manufacturing will move overseas. China makes more carbon. Is this your win?

Re: Why are Alaska's rivers turning orange?

#82
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this is saying is countries will produce/consume fossil fuels according to self interest. US shale/oil export boomed years before RU/UKR war, same with planned LNG expansion. That kind of infra didn't get planned and built in the last 2 years. It just so happens the war validated US prior geostrategic goal of being fossil fuels exporter. Eitherway, why would PRC be convinced to reducing use when it's at 1/6 per c…

I'm was talking about the recent increase. But in longer term global oil production depends on demand. You can't sell more than there is demand for. The only effect US production increase has is that other countries can sell less. Considering that Russia will use oil income directly for expansionist wars and Iran will finance global terrorism then it is only a positive outcome. When it comes to wealth then nobody dem…

> China has tripled its population by close to 3 times post WW2. ... > So it is by no degree justified for China to expect the same level per capita energy usage as United States.

Global policy coordination on Climate change focus on per capita goals post PRC population explosion, which is only metric countries can agreed. PRC absolutely has justification to expect same per capita energy usage, not just current, but historical, that is multiple times current because historical per capita actual factors in accumulation of wealth/capital/infra. Hence PRC emission rivalling developing EU countries, they're pouring centuries worth of concrete in a few years to catch up on infra, which is right of any nation behind on developing curve.

On topic of population flows, since PRC population decreasing, and US is increasing via immigration, and each US immigrant naturally adopts high per capita emissions, it's only "fair" that US also stops immigration. Of course that too is absurd. As is any proposal that that PRC would should limit fossil fuel usage to per capita levels below US and west. Ultimately, we both recognize neither US nor PRC has any interest in "playing along" because they benefit from increasing fossil usage.

The original comment was merely highlighting that US by virtue of becoming net exporter of crude + lng is increasing fossil fuel usage comparable to PRC. And that really EU is the only actor who has stagnated emission, but that's more due to policy failure than anything. US net contribution to fossil usage is anything but stagnate both in terms of industry and demographics. And unlike PRC trends which has peak/tipping points, US population increase + fuel exports will keep US as the largest per capita contributer to climate crisis. US is increasing ceiling for what is acceptable per capita for large country. And until that changes, no one else will be incentivized to settle at fraction of US per capita. If anything it would justify PRC start mass exporting coal once they're done their green transition.

Re: Why are Alaska's rivers turning orange?

#83
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm was talking about the recent increase. But in longer term global oil production depends on demand. You can't sell more than there is demand for. The only effect US production increase has is that other countries can sell less. Considering that Russia will use oil income directly for expansionist wars and Iran will finance global terrorism then it is only a positive outcome. When it comes to wealth then nobody dem…

> China has tripled its population by close to 3 times post WW2. ... > So it is by no degree justified for China to expect the same level per capita energy usage as United States. Global policy coordination on Climate change focus on per capita goals post PRC population explosion, which is only metric countries can agreed. PRC absolutely has justification to expect same per capita energy usage, not just current, but…

I know what you are doing here and you will not change your talking points. So I repeat again. China has surpassed the threshold. It is now in the big boys club and should start acting accordingly.

Re: Why are Alaska's rivers turning orange?

#84
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will be no savings nor winners is no one moves a finger. Doing nothing will have infinite cost.

America with more stringent environmental laws will do more to combat carbon emissions, and manufacturing will move overseas. China makes more carbon. Is this your win?

You can win battles but lose the war. Worry only about short term and won't be any long term to worry about.

Re: Why are Alaska's rivers turning orange?

#85
post #69
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you want to go force China to do things when we have a ton of improvement to do ourselves?

Let's imagine in simple numbers that "our" usage is 10 right now and by "tons of improvements" we could reduce it to 8. In this example China has 10 too, but is increasing its usage 10% in year and would use close to 20 after 8 years. Now how much sense would these "tons of improvements" make?

What are you gonna do, force them?
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