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Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

arstechnica.com

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Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#81

Post by aidenn0 »

alistairSH wrote: post #58
dingnuts wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's because they are mothers with >2 children. You cannot fit three car seats in the backseat of modern sedans, and station wagons don't meet the emissions requirements. Large SUVs meet CAFE regulations by being large enough to be regulated as a different class of vehicle. Want smaller trucks? Complain to your Congresscritter to reign in the EPA and force them to write better regulation that does not have these unin…

There are WAY more trucks/SUVs out there than 3-child households. And I'm not sure what you mean by "wagons don't meet emissions requirements" - wagons would meet the same regulations as sedans.

Wagons are heavier and less aerodynamic than sedans. When coupled with the same engine they are less fuel efficient (compare the E450 sedan to wagon). The fact that they are heavier and sell poorly means they will only usually be available with the large(r,st) engine (no E350 wagon in the US).

Note that I used the Mercedes because it's the only non-compact wagon I'm aware of for sale in the US.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#82

Post by matsemann »

082349872349872 wrote: post #2

Interestingly, agricultural tractors have evolved to have better sightlines. Could that be because for these machines, the pedestrian deaths are usually members of the tractor drivers' family? https://www.profi.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2020/06/2... vs https://bigiron.blob.core.windows.net/public/items/72b53c753...

London has enforced a Direct Vision Standard [1 example image] for big vehicles. I hope my city will soon as well. Having large trucks, trailers etc. in the city with no visibility to pedestrians is a death trap.

My city's new trash truck [2]. Instead of the standard "high" trailer seating above the engine, it's now down on a pedestrian level and can see clearly in what's normally a "blind spot" when turning right.

[1]: https://fncdn.blob.core.windows.net/web-clean/1/root/direct-... [2]: https://storage.googleapis.com/smallstep/sites/33/2022/02/Re...

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#83

Post by aidenn0 »

alistairSH wrote: post #56
trgn wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All true, also sad. That aside, how's the EPA responsible, not sure if I understand the connection?

Trucks (and SUVs) don't follow the same emissions regulations as sedans/wagons. I don't know if that's just EPA policy or part of the legislation that allows them to regulate auto emissions. But, it's also Congress's fault for leaving the chicken tax in place (25% tariff on imported trucks/vans). This essentially allowed domestic brands to price gouge on trucks/suvs (as VW at the time, and then the Japanese brands as…

Toyota has plants in the US; I assume they make the Tacoma in the US, which should avoid the chicken tax?

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#84

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

jetrink wrote: post #54

My proposed regulation is to introduce a hazardous vehicle license for large trucks and SUVs. Everyone is automatically granted one alongside their normal drivers license, but if you're caught driving recklessly (weaving through traffic on the highway, aggressively tailgating, speeding through residential or urban areas), you lose it and you have to drive a normal-sized car. Perhaps there's a way to earn it back thro…

I like the spirit, but don't like the unintended consequence that it would create a stigma around sedans -- "oh, those are the cars for the bad drivers". We need to do something that makes SUV drivers feel ridiculous and humiliated. Or, failing that, just make it expensive: Weight and size dependent tolls, say (using the fourth power of weight, possibly, to match road wear equations?). Or just fewer lanes in which those vehicles are allowed. "You don't get the elite lane."

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#85

Post by aidenn0 »

porphyra wrote: post #5

Vans are a lot better for both transporting people (more spacious compared to SUVs) and goods (easier loading and protected from the weather compared to pickups), plus of course having vastly better visibility. It always seems odd how trucks and SUVs are seen as status symbols in the US whereas in, say, Hong Kong, it is the MPV that is the status symbol. I suppose certain tax and emissions regulations in favor of tru…

Can't even buy the MPV in the US anymore...

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#86

Post by somerandomqaguy »

olyjohn wrote: post #21
baggachipz wrote: post #6

Yeah but the drivers get to cosplay as Rugged Men™. The only thing that'll reverse the trend and stop this from getting worse will be government regulation. Then come the cries of "Now they're taking our trucks!"

Please don't ignore that every other person also has moved from driving cars to crossovers that offer no actual advantages over a regular car. Most people want to sit high, and that's what sells crossovers. The hoods are higher in them too and we can't discount this and blame it all on big trucks.

...what?

If you've got back, hip, knee, or ankle problems, then trying to bend down into a low car is an undignified exercise at best, a struggle at worst. A CUV doesn't have that problem, you just sit into it like a chair.

For a family with young children, securing child seats into a CUV involves a lot less bending over then in lower car. Bear in mind that many child seats are 40 lbs.

If you live in a snowy area, the greater ground clearance makes it less likely to get stuck in residential roads that are lower priority for snow removal. You also have better approach angles as well, which can become a concern if you live in an area that's very hilly with steep driveways.

You probably don't see advantages, and that's fine. But that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#87

Post by havefunbesafe »

baggachipz wrote: post #6

Yeah but the drivers get to cosplay as Rugged Men™. The only thing that'll reverse the trend and stop this from getting worse will be government regulation. Then come the cries of "Now they're taking our trucks!"

The only way to reverse the trend is to create a motocross hitch that doesn't pulverize the suspension of a car/crossover.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#88

Post by matsemann »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #68
beretguy wrote: post #28

Whoever injures - or knock on wood kills - somebody with a truck with such a high hood should serve a mandatory prison sentence.

I think it should depend on the circumstances. If the pedestrian is at fault, I think the individual, or their estate, should have to pay for the truck repairs and therapy for the driver.

In the Norwegian traffic law, it specifically says that you are to slow down in areas with children. So "the child ran into the street chasing a ball right in front of my truck" isn't a valid excuse, as that's something "to be expected" when driving in a residential area.

At least in theory. Unfortunately the cops here almost never wants to prosecute cars hitting kids or pedestrians. There's always an excuse. "The sun was in their eye", "kid didn't wear high vis (it was daytime)".

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#89

Post by stcredzero »

sickofparadox wrote: post #36
baggachipz wrote: post #6

Yeah but the drivers get to cosplay as Rugged Men™. The only thing that'll reverse the trend and stop this from getting worse will be government regulation. Then come the cries of "Now they're taking our trucks!"

It's government regulations that made trucks get this big, most people simply buy what is available in the form factor they like. Trucks are the most popular form factor in the United States (with pickups a close second)[1], and the manufacturers keep making the cars bigger because of the poorly written CAFE laws[2]. I, and I suspect most Americans with pickups, would prefer to purchase one the size of a '90s F-150 a…

It's government regulations that made trucks get this big, most people simply buy what is available in the form factor they like.

Lots of Americans want smaller trucks. I just saw a Netflix show where a main character prized his old Toyota pickup. This is also evidenced in the importation of Japanese "K-car" trucks.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#90

Post by burnerburnson »

tasty_freeze wrote: post #55

There is another angle here besides the immediate impact (pun intended) of getting hit by a big truck. I'm nearly 60, but I can remember what it was like learning to drive back in 1980. Before SUVs and huge pickup trucks became common, and before tinting windows to near opacity became a thing, it was possible to see road conditions three cars ahead -- you simply looked through the windows of the car or cars in front…

I regularly pass people on the right and then cut them off getting back into the left lane just so that I don't have to be stuck behind someone I can't see around.

The tinted front/rear windows really piss me off because they make my drive more dangerous for very little reason. I'd make them illegal if it were up to me.

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