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Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

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Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#81

Post by lapcat »

nickthegreek wrote: post #77
amiga386 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exhibit A: https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/30/21348130/apple-documents-... > Jobs said, “[i]t’s time for Amazon to decide to use our payment mechanism or bow out [of the App Store],” > Jobs said: “I think this is all pretty simple — iBooks is going to be the only bookstore on iOS devices. We need to hold our heads high. One can read books bought elsewhere, just not buy/rent/subscribe from iOS without paying us, which…

Apple pay subscription cancellation ease and refunds protect the consumer. I’m not here to defend all of their practices. I am saying there are very obvious consumer friendly parts of the ecosystem starting with the fact that I don’t need to run tech support on my families tablets and phones. I barely ever see consumers complain about the ecosystem, mostly companies and developers. And I just don’t feel like they are…

> I barely ever see consumers complain about the ecosystem, mostly companies and developers.

Where have you looked? I see them complain all the time on Reddit, for example. And Apple actually denies a lot of refunds.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#82

Post by judge2020 »

danShumway wrote: post #73
judge2020 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the most vulnerable will be easily manipulated into bypassing whatever prompts are needed. The threat vector is facebook telling users to install Instagram/FB from their own app store instead of from the App Store, both eroding their privacy (since they won't be mandated to respect the "do not track" popup) as well as training them how to install apps from third-party sources and that "it's OK to sidelo…

> The threat vector is facebook telling users to install Instagram/FB from their own app store PSA, do not install Facebook on your iPhone. Use your browser. Apple does deserve credit for forcing some privacy improvements on iOS for the Facebook app but it is in no way comparable to the privacy of a web browser. If you are using Facebook's app because you're on iOS and you're thinking, "oh it's fine, Facebook can't t…

> Also to be clear, the privacy improvements Apple has pushed for on iOS are in no small part to stop allowing access to an advertising ID that should not be on iOS at all.

In 2010, Apple launched its own ad system called iAds[0]. Around that time, they started to crack down on other ad networks using UDID/mac addresses to target users with ads[1]. I imagine that Apple only made the IDFA in a compromise with advertisers[2].

While I understand the sentiment that any tracking identifier shouldn't exist, Apple needed iOS to continue to succeed in the iOS 6 days and probably didn't want to deal with any anticompetitive lawsuits that early in the lineup's lifetime.

0: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2010/06/07Apple-to-Debut-iAds...

1: http://www.cultofmac.com/160248/what-the-hell-is-a-udid-and-...

2: https://www.businessinsider.com/ifa-apples-iphone-tracking-i...

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#83

Post by AnonC »

jayski wrote: post #60
threeseed wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're simply wrong. And every court and government around the world agrees. Companies have a right to charge a fee for using their platform. Apple can not be forced to give you their SDKs, Services etc for free and help you sell that product on their marketplace for free. They have a right to charge something . You can rightfully argue that the 27% is way too high and courts have agreed. But those like Epic hypocrit…

> Apple can not be forced to give you their SDKs, Services etc for free and help you sell that product on their marketplace for free. The argument is we wouldn't need their marketplace and services if they allowed users to easily download and install software downloaded from regular websites. you know... the way it always worked and still works in Linux/BSD. There are obviously security implications to this, but I be…

> As far as their SDKs they actually do need to provide those for free, otherwise nobody will develop software for iOS and they won't be able to sell devices.

It currently doesn’t work like that. To develop and distribute apps, even free apps, a developer membership costing US $99 a year is necessary. Yet there are plenty of free apps without in app purchases or external subscriptions or payments.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#84

Post by malshe »

lapcat wrote: post #81
nickthegreek wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple pay subscription cancellation ease and refunds protect the consumer. I’m not here to defend all of their practices. I am saying there are very obvious consumer friendly parts of the ecosystem starting with the fact that I don’t need to run tech support on my families tablets and phones. I barely ever see consumers complain about the ecosystem, mostly companies and developers. And I just don’t feel like they are…

> I barely ever see consumers complain about the ecosystem, mostly companies and developers. Where have you looked? I see them complain all the time on Reddit, for example. And Apple actually denies a lot of refunds.

Reddit is one of the most astroturfed websites out there. I wouldn't trust anything I read there.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#85

Post by malshe »

talkingtab wrote: post #14

This is an example of the incredible arrogance of companies like Apple, Amazon, Google, Microsoft and Facebook. They have the ability to pour an enormous amount of money into lawyers and lobbying so that even companies like Epic or countries like the Netherlands have little chance of controlling misbehavior. Even the IRS is having a hard time getting Microsoft to pay their 28 BILLION dollar tax bill. It should be cle…

I am not a developer, I am a consumer. I can tell you I trust Apple way more than any developer. So the premium I pay to Apple is for the low risk as a consumer.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#86

Post by lapcat »

malshe wrote: post #84
lapcat wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I barely ever see consumers complain about the ecosystem, mostly companies and developers. Where have you looked? I see them complain all the time on Reddit, for example. And Apple actually denies a lot of refunds.

Reddit is one of the most astroturfed websites out there. I wouldn't trust anything I read there.

No worse than here. ;-)

But not trusting anything you read is a very convenient way of denying the existence of any complaints. How else would you tell?

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#87

Post by qarl »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #46
qarl wrote: post #10

Guys - Epic lost the lawsuit. That's why nothing changed. Why does this feel exactly like the 2020 election, where one side lost but keeps complaining that everyone is acting like they lost.

It wasn't a total loss though. The judge found Apple's anti-streering practices to be anti-competitive. > The Epic Games v. Apple trial took place throughout May 2021 and was decided by Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers, who sided with Apple in nine of the ten counts brought against it by Epic Games. The count in which she sided with Epic related to Apple’s restriction against linking to web-based payments from within an…

Ok. It was a near total loss. My point stands.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#88

Post by nickthegreek »

lapcat wrote: post #81
nickthegreek wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple pay subscription cancellation ease and refunds protect the consumer. I’m not here to defend all of their practices. I am saying there are very obvious consumer friendly parts of the ecosystem starting with the fact that I don’t need to run tech support on my families tablets and phones. I barely ever see consumers complain about the ecosystem, mostly companies and developers. And I just don’t feel like they are…

> I barely ever see consumers complain about the ecosystem, mostly companies and developers. Where have you looked? I see them complain all the time on Reddit, for example. And Apple actually denies a lot of refunds.

I have never heard a person complain about this in real life. I hear other issues with Apple but never has anyone espoused the desire for another AppStore. Everyone loves the ability to mange subs in one location. They enjoy the ease of transactions from the AppStore as opposed to entering cc info or logging into other apps. My less tech savvy friends and family feel safe in the iOS ecosystem. They do think there are issues with low quality predatory subscription apps though. I certainly agree with that.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#89

Post by lapcat »

nickthegreek wrote: post #88
lapcat wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I barely ever see consumers complain about the ecosystem, mostly companies and developers. Where have you looked? I see them complain all the time on Reddit, for example. And Apple actually denies a lot of refunds.

I have never heard a person complain about this in real life. I hear other issues with Apple but never has anyone espoused the desire for another AppStore. Everyone loves the ability to mange subs in one location. They enjoy the ease of transactions from the AppStore as opposed to entering cc info or logging into other apps. My less tech savvy friends and family feel safe in the iOS ecosystem. They do think there are…

> I have never heard a person complain about this in real life.

This is all real life. I'm real. What you appear to be saying is that you're judging entirely by the ancedotal experience of the small number of people who you happen to know personally. How many of them have actually requested an App Store refund?

What I can say, as an App Store developer, is that a lot of consumers are totally ignorant of how the App Store works. They email me about problems with transactions, despite the fact that I have no access to customer transactions. I can't even grant refunds. They email me about problems with App Store downloads, despite the fact that I no control whatsoever over downloads. They even email me to "cancel my subscription", despite the fact that my app doesn't even have a subscription.

Re: Apple to Developers: Heads I win, tails you lose (part 2)

#90

Post by malshe »

lapcat wrote: post #86
malshe wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit is one of the most astroturfed websites out there. I wouldn't trust anything I read there.

No worse than here. ;-) But not trusting anything you read is a very convenient way of denying the existence of any complaints. How else would you tell?

It all depends on how much one trusts an online forum. Btw, what is your measure for determining astroturfing on HN versus Reddit? I understand astroturfing happens here to some extent but I am not aware of any social media manager who spends money on astroturfing on HN. In contrast, I have heard (second hand) about social media guys paying for Reddit astroturfing.
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