Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather • Hacker News Board

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#81

Post by _ea1k » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 3:19 PM UTC

boh wrote: post #7

wyldfire wrote: post #4

I'm not sure that this warrants such a generalization from the title. The article itself goes on to quote: > “This is not a categorical problem for electric vehicles,” he added, “because it has largely been sorted out in other places.” > ... Cold weather is likely to be less of an issue as companies update electric vehicles models. Even in the last few years, companies have developed capabilities that allow newer mod…

The only place where they provide specific examples of how things are "largely sorted" is Norway and they themselves admit: > the majority of people in Norway live in houses, not apartments, and nearly 90 percent of electric vehicle owners have their own charging stations at home, he said.

There are a lot of cold towns in the US that didn't have the same issues as Chicago. There's more to it than just "Cold weather".

TBH, perhaps the more general problem is that EVs aren't fully ready for dense cities yet. Or maybe dense cities aren't ready for EVs.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#82

Post by epistasis » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 3:22 PM UTC

NDizzle wrote: post #68

epistasis wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And as somebody who drives an EV, occasionally in cold weather, I would also assert based on my personal experience that losing range is "bullshit" but I also realize that others have different experiences.

My RAV4 prime with "42 miles of range" hits 0 in 22 miles of freeway driving with the temps around 10F outside right now.

That's exactly the sort of vehicle that has not been designed to preserve battery life in cold weather. Legacy auto manufacturers have not taken batteries seriously, and so I would totally believe that the tiny battery would not have the thermal management it needs to stay warm enough for maximum capacity.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#83

Post by el_benhameen » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 3:23 PM UTC

tetromino_ wrote: post #27

aa_is_op wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused that these people are confused. Why did they buy an EV if they don't have a place to charge it. It's like buying a surfboard while living in Iowa.

Well, there is a narrative out there that the ICE is dead and everyone should be driving electric. The media always neglects to add the caveat that the electric future has arrived only for garage-owning suburbanites.

I have seen and heard countless “range anxiety” stories in commercial and nonprofit media in the US, including many about how the issue specifically affects apartment-dwellers.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#84

Post by mdorazio » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 3:26 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #76

natch wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or an electrical outlet within reach. “Charging station” makes it sound inordinately expensive. An outlet is all they need and is already hard enough that there’s no need to make it sound harder than it is.

That's not exactly accurate. Pick a car - say a Mustang Mach-e: a standard 15A outlet is going to charge at 4miles/hr. Say you get home a 6pm, never go anywhere, and leave it plugged in overnight - that's 48 miles of range. If you're talking dead of winter in Chicago in negative temps, assume half that. Long story short: a 15A outlet really isn't going to get the job done for charging a car. Also you cannot just char…

Not really, though. The average American drives 37 miles a day [1]. Your 48 miles overnight is more than enough 9 months out of the year even in a place like Chicago. A once a week trip to a faster charger or just a top-off when you're at a store / workplace that has chargers would cover the other 3 months. For places with less extreme winters than Chicago (the vast majority of US population centers), it's a non-issue.

[1] https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/average-miles-driven-per-year...

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#85

Post by thebruce87m » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 3:27 PM UTC

NDizzle wrote: post #70

bryanlarsen wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the car was plugged in before I left, then yes to all three. The first is always true for at least a Tesla and you use the nav. A Tesla knows it's cold outside. If you punch a destination into your nav, it'll tell it what percentage will remain when you get there and it's always accurate. The second is true if you charge the car while it's warm. We travelled from Ottawa to Quebec City in the cold, stopping to char…

You had to stop 3 times for a 275 mile drive?!

ICE cars have to go to a gas station every ~500 miles. For some EV owners like me, the trade off in time saved refuelling an ICE car is spent on charging on rare long journeys. I actually save time overall. But each use-case is different.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#86

Post by _ea1k » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 3:28 PM UTC

mikestew wrote: post #77

natch wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This last quote just showcases a few people’s ignorance (at a minimum the author, the editor, and the person being quoted) of the fact that nobody needs a “charging station” at home. All you need is an outlet and a charging cable.

I have to assume you either don’t drive much, or don’t actually own an electric car. Those are the only explanations I have for making such an inaccurate (I hesitate to quote the word “ignorant“) statement. — Owner of an EV that would take days to charge on 120V

I used an EV for years with a 120V. It also would "take days to charge", but 12 hours would net ~24%. It is surprisingly usable, especially if there is a nearby DCFC bottom charge at if you ever get a little low.

Of course, there are caveats. If it is cold and the vehicle has to be charged at the street, charge times will be much longer. But he's right that people often underestimate the usefulness of L1 charging, even though it would literally take days.

Coincidentally, in this thread we have people talking about a car that ran out at the airport and required a tow. L1 is perfect for airport parking.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#87

Post by iAMkenough » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 3:28 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #76

natch wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or an electrical outlet within reach. “Charging station” makes it sound inordinately expensive. An outlet is all they need and is already hard enough that there’s no need to make it sound harder than it is.

That's not exactly accurate. Pick a car - say a Mustang Mach-e: a standard 15A outlet is going to charge at 4miles/hr. Say you get home a 6pm, never go anywhere, and leave it plugged in overnight - that's 48 miles of range. If you're talking dead of winter in Chicago in negative temps, assume half that. Long story short: a 15A outlet really isn't going to get the job done for charging a car. Also you cannot just char…

48 miles a day is plenty for me, and the few weeks where it might be 24 miles a day, I just grab lunch once or twice in the week at the food court that has a few DC chargers available to top off.

The 15A charger that came with my car is weatherproofed and locks into place when connected to my car outside my apartment building. The rent I pay also pays for that overnight trickle charge, so a replacement charger would still cost less than I was previously spending in fueling up my Ford Fusion each year.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#88

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 3:29 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #76

natch wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or an electrical outlet within reach. “Charging station” makes it sound inordinately expensive. An outlet is all they need and is already hard enough that there’s no need to make it sound harder than it is.

That's not exactly accurate. Pick a car - say a Mustang Mach-e: a standard 15A outlet is going to charge at 4miles/hr. Say you get home a 6pm, never go anywhere, and leave it plugged in overnight - that's 48 miles of range. If you're talking dead of winter in Chicago in negative temps, assume half that. Long story short: a 15A outlet really isn't going to get the job done for charging a car. Also you cannot just char…

[deleted]

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#89

Post by bryanlarsen » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 3:30 PM UTC

thebruce87m wrote: post #85

NDizzle wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had to stop 3 times for a 275 mile drive?!

ICE cars have to go to a gas station every ~500 miles. For some EV owners like me, the trade off in time saved refuelling an ICE car is spent on charging on rare long journeys. I actually save time overall. But each use-case is different.

I would filled up twice on a trip between Ottawa and Quebec City in a gasoline car in the winter. Never let your tank get below 50% in case of emergency, and there's no such thing as a "destination charger" for ICE's.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#90

Post by seanmcdirmid » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 3:30 PM UTC

incomingpain wrote: post #31

I find myself a bit of an outcast in my social groups. My conservative friends dislike EVs, but I very much love them and will be buying an EV next. I'm holding out for a solid state battery generation. When it's -40c and you're running the video security systems. It only drains about 1% a day. Yes you have less range, but so does gasoline. About the same amount of loss. Turning it on... harder for gasoline. Better p…

My only experience with -40C was in Harbin where my cell phone and camera battery died quickly. This was back in 2006 though, and I’m guessing the batteries were just not ready for it.