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We need technology that is less immersive, not more

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Re: We need technology that is less immersive, not more

#81

Post by szundi »

paulddraper wrote: post #76
massysett wrote: post #47

"I hope you’ll agree that humanity has a variety of important engineering problems to solve, and nicer-looking graphics is quite low on that list." I used to sneer at the social value of entertainment. Then covid lockdowns hit. I spent a lot of time playing Factorio. When professional sports resumed playing (in empty stadiums, with fake crowd noise on the broadcasts) I was happy to sit on the couch after work and wat…

How things look is important. Not as important as how they function, but still important. People, software programs, buildings, landscapes... appearance is information, about quality, about professionalism, about creativity, about attention to detail.

Civilization 1 and 2 was much greater experience than 5, although graphics was quite basic.

This is in some other aspects means the opposite

Re: We need technology that is less immersive, not more

#82

Post by verisimi »

My opinion is that the last 40 to 50 years, have been all about entertainment, as a tool of control.

Are cars better, planes, houses....? Only marginally. I don't even want sensors to tell me my car has this or that issue, lol.

But we have phones, the internet, TV programming on demand, YT, tiktok, games, VR, flat screens, etc etc. it's all about content and the delivery of that content.

Basically all development has been in entertainment while every other industry has pretty much stood still, or devolved (eg food quality).

Re: We need technology that is less immersive, not more

#83

Post by johnchristopher »

allknowingfrog wrote: post #69
johnchristopher wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nope, the most famous form is Ginsberg; I don't know if he lifted it from somewhere too. No, they appeared in very different contexts and Ginsberg goes in a different direction (1955, drugs, jazz, etc.): > I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix, angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient…

"Best minds of my generation" is a pretty specific phrase which appears in the Ginsberg quote and not in the Banksy one. I would argue that famous quote are more often related by structure than context. Most quotes about "the smell of in the morning" are not about the Vietnam war, for example.

Reminds me of an aphorism with a moon but I can't quite put my finger on it.

Re: We need technology that is less immersive, not more

#84

Post by nostrademons »

madsbuch wrote: post #71
massysett wrote: post #47

"I hope you’ll agree that humanity has a variety of important engineering problems to solve, and nicer-looking graphics is quite low on that list." I used to sneer at the social value of entertainment. Then covid lockdowns hit. I spent a lot of time playing Factorio. When professional sports resumed playing (in empty stadiums, with fake crowd noise on the broadcasts) I was happy to sit on the couch after work and wat…

While I think most people understand this sentiment, the root issue here was the lock-down – Yes, if you imprison a whole nation it is good to have some sedation. You could say that a lot of people wouldn't have gone through lock-downs without alcohol and porn either. That does not make it more admirable. I agree in the sentiment that we have more important issues than providing ever more entertainment – we had no is…

Is it? I remember Marc Andreessen's comment near the height of the VR craze of ~2016, about "reality deserts". Some segment of the American population lives in an urban area (or suburban area / village with people they actually like), and for them, the idea that people might want to play computer games online instead of hanging out with their friends in person is unfathomable. But not everybody is privileged enough to have that situation. By the numbers, not even a majority of people is privileged enough to have that situation. A lot of people live in suburban boxes, don't have friends, and don't particularly like the people around them. For them, a technology where they can go out to the Internet, find people that they actually do like, and engage in activities that they all find fun is a godsend.

Re: We need technology that is less immersive, not more

#85

Post by sureglymop »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #30
nonameiguess wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what the original actually was, but around post-9/11 derivatives finance boom, physicists and electrical engineers started lamenting that all the smartest people of the current generation were wasting all that brainpower on relatively zero-sum arms races between hedge funds trying to win trades against each other. The one about making people click ads grew out of that after the GFC when software salaries…

> I'm sure there was something else earlier that diverted intelligent, talented people into socially unproductive pursuits because it paid better. The problem is in my experience (for quite some smart people) not "which job pays so much better (and thus facing a potential dilemma about selling out)", but rather about actually finding a job. The job market does not like very smart people, but rather self-promoters and…

I've heard a similar thing said about drivers. Those who drive more respectfully and thoughtfully end up in more crashes because the rest is less respectful of them in traffic (and of them crashing). It's an anecdote I just heard from a friend.

Maybe there's something similar in the job market where smart people are more self aware that they may take someone elses spot and more respectful and less good self promoters. Because the other set of people don't even think about that they end up getting the spots.

Re: We need technology that is less immersive, not more

#86

Post by paulddraper »

szundi wrote: post #81
paulddraper wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How things look is important. Not as important as how they function, but still important. People, software programs, buildings, landscapes... appearance is information, about quality, about professionalism, about creativity, about attention to detail.

Civilization 1 and 2 was much greater experience than 5, although graphics was quite basic. This is in some other aspects means the opposite

But at time of release, Civ 1 and 2 had best-in-class graphics.

Re: We need technology that is less immersive, not more

#88

Post by jayd16 »

hopa wrote: post #66

I feel like you only see articles like this written by game developers. Something about making video games for a living makes you question the value of what you’re creating.

Everyone has 'but is any of it worthwhile?' moments. You're going to focus that question towards what's around you.

Re: We need technology that is less immersive, not more

#90

Post by campground »

One compelling theory for why we have not encountered intelligent life is that any sufficiently advanced civilization will eventually stop exploring the universe and immerse themselves entirely in virtual reality, to the point that they harness the total output of their star for computation, and disappear.

Relativity means that the Star Trek vision of a galaxy spanning society is probably an incoherent fantasy. Why pursue expensive, dangerous, and disappointing adventures in the real world when you can conjure any conceivable reality with perfect verisimilitude?

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