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Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

htmx.org

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Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#81

Post by internet101010 »

msolberg wrote: post #66

As a devops engineer who has recently been tasked with building UIs for our team and our developers, HTMX is a godsend. I create apps that often get steadily worked on for weeks and then only maintenance once and a while after that. I used to write django apps, but recently switched to a go backend with go html templates and htmx. This allows me to push everything in one docker image and avoid the black box nature of…

Alpine + htmx + tailwind is pretty much what I use for every quick little front-end thing now. I do still use Django but plan to transition to Rust as a way to get more comfortable with Rust.

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#82

Post by diggan »

bcrosby95 wrote: post #76
diggan wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One vital distinction is that even if you define 100 components, nothing will happen unless you call .render from react-dom. Nothing is automatically setup for you. Compare that to Laravel or anything else that is obviously a framework. You write code and put it in a file in the right place, and it gets picked up automatically, most of the time. This makes me still consider React a library, rather than a framework. B…

Note that by this definition Spring Boot isn't a framework - you call SpringApplication.run to start it.

Forgive my ignorance, I'm not super deep into the Java ecosystem, but is Spring Boot the same as just "Spring"? Or what is the difference precisely?

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#83

Post by jbverschoor »

germandiago wrote: post #10

It is not the same at all. Of course it needs javascript on the back to work. But the concept is totally different. It uses a hypermedia declarative model, an extended POST/GET etc. model. It keeps things very simple compared to a framework like React where you need a package manager, a transpiler and a json backend for data (not returning hypermedia). So I would not consider it another Javascript frontend framework…

The second biggest USP of React was that it's a library and not a framework.

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#85

Post by jbverschoor »

chrisco255 wrote: post #22
germandiago wrote: post #10

It is not the same at all. Of course it needs javascript on the back to work. But the concept is totally different. It uses a hypermedia declarative model, an extended POST/GET etc. model. It keeps things very simple compared to a framework like React where you need a package manager, a transpiler and a json backend for data (not returning hypermedia). So I would not consider it another Javascript frontend framework…

AJAX means Asynchronous Javascript and XML. It's quite literally JS. AJAX was not part of the original web model. It came out around the year 2000.

Before that, we could use JSRS (JavaScript Remote Scripting)

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#86

Post by karmarepellent »

crftr wrote: post #21

HTMX aims to render itself obsolete by serving as a proof of concept to advance the HTML specification. In various interviews and blog posts, Carson has mentioned that jQuery was essential only until browsers implemented features like `querySelectorAll`. The discussion about Library vs. Framework misses the core objective of the HTMX project.

Are you sure HTMX aims to be eventually incorporated in some form or another into the HTML spec? I think I read most of the blog articles on the website but I cannot remember such a statement.

Another question in the same vein: In your view, why is it so important for the project to advance the HTML spec?

By the way I am actually curious about this, I am an avid user of HTMX, but have never contemplated this.

Edit: Ok I think I get it now. HTMX provides hypermedia controls that should have been in the standard from the beginning. It also more-or-less maintains the current semantics of the web as defined in the HTML spec. Therefore it is logical to eventually include it into the standard. That it?

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#87

Post by mring33621 »

endisneigh wrote: post #24

htmx is one of those things, like SQLite on the server, that you will incessantly see on HN, but rarely see used at large profitable companies. Say you use python and Django. Why use htmx instead of Django templates? Same with ruby and rails, elixir and phoenix, etc. the trend is clearly towards live view/hotwire OR things like server side react. Htmx is in a weird position that makes no sense unless you want to use…

I did a little POC for myself for an internal app that provides pass-thru access to a menu of tools (most of which are java-based microservices) and I'm using Django templates to deliver content to htmx-controlled slots in the UI. Works great and is very easy, from someone who is not an expert in either tech.

Overall, I have used htmx successfully in several small projects, of varying tech stacks, without much effort at all.

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#88

Post by iterateoften »

karmarepellent wrote: post #80
iterateoften wrote: post #74

The problem I have with this style of library for frontend dev work is eventually the scope of the problem exceeds what the library is capable of doing. Then you have to embed JS which then gets pretty messy and spaghetti code and enough of this you are right back to where you started setting up a JS build system to make up for the deficiencies. Only now it is worse because you are working around one library and you…

But it is not a given that the scope of the problem eventually exceeds what HTMX is capable of. It is perfectly fine to set HTMX aside and choose another framework if you feel that it better suits the problem at hand. Meanwhile there is still a ton of projects for which HTMX is more than enough (and always will be). So what you are mentioning is not an issue of HTMX, but one of "chosing the right tool for the problem…

That’s fair. I guess my comment was inadvertently responding to another about why you don’t see it at large companies.

One team at my company wanted to use HTMX and write the product with it and then the PM kept asking for features to bring it to parity with the rest of the application with regards to client side behavior and things devolved. They used hyperscript and eventually the frontend was just rewritten to be react.

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#89

Post by jbverschoor »

hobofan wrote: post #34
intrasight wrote: post #14

I prefer to refer to htmx as a "future polyfill". Eventually, htmx semantics will become part of the web standard, and older browsers (or those that choose not to implement the feature) will need this polyfill.

> Eventually, htmx semantics will become part of the web standard Why do you think that will be the case? I'm not aware of any effort being made to evolve htmx into a web standard (either by introduction into existing specifications or direct adoption by browser), so this is about as baseless of a claim as someone saying "I see JQuery as a future polyfill" in ~2006.

Because it's a damn good name. As a matter of fact, when I read about HTMLX, I assumed it was a browser supported feature that I had missed

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#90

Post by bcrosby95 »

diggan wrote: post #82
bcrosby95 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that by this definition Spring Boot isn't a framework - you call SpringApplication.run to start it.

Forgive my ignorance, I'm not super deep into the Java ecosystem, but is Spring Boot the same as just "Spring"? Or what is the difference precisely?

Spring Boot is a layer on top of Spring that makes it easier to use.
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