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Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

cointelegraph.com

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Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#81

Post by jMyles »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #74

The fact that Spot Bitcoin ETFs were ever contemplated into existence just shows the general insanity of crypto. After all, if you believe that cryptocurrencies, with "the code is the law" ethos and non-reputable transactions, are the wave of the future, just transact in BTC directly. If you believe crypto is actually too risky to manage individually (e.g. hacked/stolen keys) then you'd want the benefit of something…

Agreed - I think the little cryptographer in all of us regards this as a sad day.

It's going to take real courage to leave the economic systems of predation and extraction behind. Whether or not you think crypto is likely to be a large part of that motion (I do, but some reasonable folks disagree), there's nothing about this action that feels like it's part of it.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#82

Post by mratsim »

treyd wrote: post #68
reisse wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already wealthy? I don't think you know the scene well. HFT probably pulled more physics and math grads out of poverty than any other field.

It's also pulled those grads away from more typical jobs they'd have building useful things and actually producing new real-world value.

Real world value for which they'll be paid post-doc/PhD wages and be carrying student debt like Sisyphus carries his boulder for all eternity.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#83

Post by bodiekane »

elwell wrote: post #43
boeingUH60 wrote: post #28

As my Dad told me, anyone investing in crypto is a fool looking to take advantage of another fool. It’s all Greater Fool Theory.

> anyone investing in crypto FTFY: anyone investing

It's sad people are so financially illiterate.

Buying partial ownership (shares) in a real company that makes a product or service profitably, or loaning money to a person or business that will be paid back with interest, are both ways to invest capital which can increase in value with no "greater fool".

Apple stock isn't worth more today than in 1990 because people arbitrarily agreed upon a bigger number, it's worth more because they've innovated and grown and now sell expensive products to a billion customers around the world.

Crypto tokens, NFTs, beanie babies, rare coins, paintings only increase in value if some greater fool comes along to pay more than you paid for it. At least with a painting or a beanie baby you could display it in your house, I guess.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#84

Post by wmf »

psychlops wrote: post #78
moose_man wrote: post #5

This is so sad. Crypto (including Bitcoin) serves as a money funnel while takes from economically insecure middle class retail investors and pours it into the pockets of the tremendously wealthy.

How does bitcoin "take" money from anybody? How would you classify an economically insecure investor? If they are economically insecure, where do they get the money to invest? Food for thought, when there is currency inflation where do you suppose all the wealth goes and who is it taken from? Here I think we can use the word "take".

A lot of people buy in at the top, expecting "generational wealth", then sell at the bottom, losing 60% or more.

US dollar inflation has never been 60% per year AFAIK.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#85

Post by nikolay »

mratsim wrote: post #73
nikolay wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, how about trying to move $200 in Bitcoin - it's the most expensive funds transfer. You cannot "move" $50 as it's cost-prohibitive!

Try moving $50 in a private bank. Fees for stocks start at $200.

I do it every week. It's free (Zelle), or it's incredibly cheap. It has predictable cost and timeframe, too, unlike Bitcoin, with no customer service and no way to remediate errors and fraud! So, even if I pay to the banks, it covers people and insurance - unlike with Bitcoin, which just burns fossil fuels so that Chinese miners can get richer and richer stealing subsidized electricity!

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#86

Post by psychlops »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #74

The fact that Spot Bitcoin ETFs were ever contemplated into existence just shows the general insanity of crypto. After all, if you believe that cryptocurrencies, with "the code is the law" ethos and non-reputable transactions, are the wave of the future, just transact in BTC directly. If you believe crypto is actually too risky to manage individually (e.g. hacked/stolen keys) then you'd want the benefit of something…

> The fact that Spot Bitcoin ETFs were ever contemplated into existence just shows the general insanity of crypto.

Why is it the insanity of crypto? The action is entirely established interests putting a wrapper around crypto.

How do you suppose a large fund should purchase bitcoin? They specialize in markets, not wallet management. Many also do not hold their own cash individually and entrust institutions.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#87

Post by reisse »

treyd wrote: post #68
reisse wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already wealthy? I don't think you know the scene well. HFT probably pulled more physics and math grads out of poverty than any other field.

It's also pulled those grads away from more typical jobs they'd have building useful things and actually producing new real-world value.

I don't really want to start a debate on how HFT produces real-world value, but just consider that if these things you talk about are really useful and valuable, they might also provide competitive salaries to attract people?

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#88

Post by dgreensp »

ESTheComposer wrote: post #14
monero-xmr wrote: post #8

The death of crypto was written endlessly on HN. The investor activity is much more bullish over last 6 months. I think the only hot VC right now in all of tech is AI and blockchain. Now a lot of people here will be investing in Bitcoin without even knowing it, as their passive fund investments begin accumulating. The sweet victory against the no coiners.

People in HN are in a massive bubble; you see it with other topics too. It's nice to look here for some tech sentiment and interesting article sometimes, but for most cutting edge stuff this forum is always full of naysayers.

People who aren’t in the tech/VC or crypto echo chambers can see that it’s (still) overhyped and mostly scams. They don’t really care or have more positive sentiment than HN.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#89

Post by nikolay »

michaelt wrote: post #80
nikolay wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, how about trying to move $200 in Bitcoin - it's the most expensive funds transfer. You cannot "move" $50 as it's cost-prohibitive!

Simply divide your BTC into paper wallets in a variety of sizes from $5 to $100, and when you need to make a transaction, mail the right combination of wallets to the person you want to pay. /s

Mailing costs money, too; it's slow, and there's no proof that I've made the transfer. Plus, if that person wants to consolidate their funds, they will have to pay the crazy costs still, i.e. they will put it into their pricing model! How about comparing apples to apples?!

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#90

Post by RandomLensman »

treyd wrote: post #68
reisse wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already wealthy? I don't think you know the scene well. HFT probably pulled more physics and math grads out of poverty than any other field.

It's also pulled those grads away from more typical jobs they'd have building useful things and actually producing new real-world value.

Yes, they might create more non-monetary value elsewhere, but that trades off against what non-monetary value the money they make creates now.
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