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Ex-Google CEO Eric Schmidt Is Working on a Secret Military Drone Project

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Re: Ex-Google CEO Eric Schmidt Is Working on a Secret Military Drone Project

#81

Post by greedo »

rainworld wrote: post #61
PoignardAzur wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many assumptions packed in that post it feels weird to try to unpack them; eg, the implication the "local" Ukrainian equipment would be by default inferior to Russian equipment, which doesn't seem obvious at all to me. But empirically speaking, the idea that Russian equipment will be better than OTAN equipment because of their combat experience is pretty bold considering the current domination of OTAN eq…

current domination of OTAN equipment in the Ukraine-Russia war Back in the real world: Hangar queens: http://archive.today/2024.01.09-023929/https://www.spiegel.d... Barrel trouble: https://x.com/DcDxii/status/1731800411965645092 Death traps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMX-10_RC#Operational_history And so on. If anything this war is a vindication of the Soviet approach.

Back in the real world, the Russians have lost over 5000 MBTs and similar numbers of AFVs.

You have to remember that Ukraine was provided with this gear with minimal training. It's easy to pick out small issues, (yes the Panzerhaubitze is a bit of a sensitive system to operate), but the majority of NATO gear provides better protection, and is more effective assuming the equipment is supported and maintained properly.

Russian gear is tough, can survive a lot of misuse and lack of maintenance. But compared to NATO gear, it's just not as survivable.

Re: Ex-Google CEO Eric Schmidt Is Working on a Secret Military Drone Project

#82

Post by rainworld »

petre wrote: post #73
rainworld wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

current domination of OTAN equipment in the Ukraine-Russia war Back in the real world: Hangar queens: http://archive.today/2024.01.09-023929/https://www.spiegel.d... Barrel trouble: https://x.com/DcDxii/status/1731800411965645092 Death traps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMX-10_RC#Operational_history And so on. If anything this war is a vindication of the Soviet approach.

They have not been sufficiently trained to man and maintain modern NATO equipment built for a different purpose: combined arms operations. Old Leopard 1 tanks would have been a better choice than Leopard 2. This is a war that could be won with lots of artillery shells, combined with targeting computers and drone surveillance, highly mobile artillery.

not been sufficiently trained

FTA: In Mali they discovered a 10x breakdown rate compared to home in Germany. And that wasn’t even war. Also, they lack spare parts. The beauty of just-in-time logistics. Read up on how much of a typical NATO army is operational at a given (peace) time. '91 was a long time ago.

Old Leopard 1 tanks would have been a better choice

There goes “crew survived”.

built for a different purpose: combined arms operations

“Easy. Just win before the tanks break down. Just destroy the enemy before you ever get close.” Someone should have explained that to the Ukrainians.

could be won with lots of artillery shells

Shells that NATO can neither supply nor produce in sufficient quantities.

highly mobile artillery

They have (had) enough of those. Barrel wear ruins the range, Lancets ruin the paint job.

Re: Ex-Google CEO Eric Schmidt Is Working on a Secret Military Drone Project

#83

Post by cpursley »

greedo wrote: post #80
cpursley wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the current domination of OTAN equipment in the Ukraine-Russia war Exactly which OTAN/NATO equipment is "dominating" in that conflict?

I'm assuming you're asking in good faith: Patriot. NASAMs. SAMP-T and IRIS. All proving themselves at least as good as any Russian SAM system. ATACMS, GMLRS, HARM, Javelin, TOW, Gepard, PZH-2000, M-777, Paladin, SCALP/STORM, Bradley... The list goes on. Of course the Ukrainians are not being provided with enough equipment and munitions to actually win, but the equipment itself is dominating when used in even a close…

This is just a list of equipment, most of which Russia has equivalents of that are at least a match (or close enough).

Re: Ex-Google CEO Eric Schmidt Is Working on a Secret Military Drone Project

#84

Post by rainworld »

greedo wrote: post #81
rainworld wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

current domination of OTAN equipment in the Ukraine-Russia war Back in the real world: Hangar queens: http://archive.today/2024.01.09-023929/https://www.spiegel.d... Barrel trouble: https://x.com/DcDxii/status/1731800411965645092 Death traps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMX-10_RC#Operational_history And so on. If anything this war is a vindication of the Soviet approach.

Back in the real world, the Russians have lost over 5000 MBTs and similar numbers of AFVs. You have to remember that Ukraine was provided with this gear with minimal training. It's easy to pick out small issues, (yes the Panzerhaubitze is a bit of a sensitive system to operate), but the majority of NATO gear provides better protection, and is more effective assuming the equipment is supported and maintained properly.…

[flagged]

Re: Ex-Google CEO Eric Schmidt Is Working on a Secret Military Drone Project

#85

Post by rnk »

nerpderp82 wrote: post #26
ChumpGPT wrote: post #16

After watching 1000's of Ukrainian drone videos, it's absolutely terrifying for the foot soldier these days. You almost stand zero chance and as for vehicles, it can seriously impact their usefulness. APC's,Tanks become scrap metal from a $500 drone carrying a shaped charge. The US has always depended on air superiority to fight its wars, they are completely unprepared for what facing an enemy with superior air defen…

Which is why we should be halting the progression and use of the drones like we are seeing in Ukraine. No one wins a drone war.

How do we get China to stop? It's impossible. It's completely to their advantage to have drones get better. They can mass produce them way better than us. The CPUs don't seem to be that advanced up to now, so they can probably make them. If not they can steal/buy them illegally.

Russia is a slightly different case because they can't make many of the parts but they can cobble them together using other CPUs. So they are hurt, but possibly helped.

We just have to work on defensive measures.

Re: Ex-Google CEO Eric Schmidt Is Working on a Secret Military Drone Project

#86

Post by riku_iki »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #67
bbor wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain? I think we’re having a different discussion than the million dollar predator drones that shot missiles at western Asia from a mile up. And to say that defending against ISIS/Houthi/Etc. drones is in any way similar to the experience Ukraine and Russia are getting seems wrong. But I’m probably misunderstanding? In general I’m not 100% convinced by “they use drones so they’re better with them” but it…

The US has decades of intensive research, development, and operational experience with of drones at every scale and for every mission. This ranges from the multi-million dollar predator drones you are thinking of to the dirt-cheap disposable drones used by infantry units that are basically just higher quality versions of what is being used in Ukraine. US military has been preparing for this for a long time and has a…

I see it very differently:

- Ukraine's drones capabilities were built internally using consumer grade hardware

- US tried to supply some cutting edge military grade drones(switchblade 300/600), but there is no much reports about them, and program has been canceled since then, I speculate those drones were having significant issues

My suspicion is that US small combat drones programs are weak and ineffective.

Re: Ex-Google CEO Eric Schmidt Is Working on a Secret Military Drone Project

#87

Post by dragonwriter »

riku_iki wrote: post #86
jandrewrogers wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has decades of intensive research, development, and operational experience with of drones at every scale and for every mission. This ranges from the multi-million dollar predator drones you are thinking of to the dirt-cheap disposable drones used by infantry units that are basically just higher quality versions of what is being used in Ukraine. US military has been preparing for this for a long time and has a…

I see it very differently: - Ukraine's drones capabilities were built internally using consumer grade hardware - US tried to supply some cutting edge military grade drones(switchblade 300/600), but there is no much reports about them, and program has been canceled since then, I speculate those drones were having significant issues My suspicion is that US small combat drones programs are weak and ineffective.

> US tried to supply some cutting edge military grade drones(switchblade 300/600)

“Tried”?

> but there is no much reports about them,

There are lots of reports about them.

> and program has been canceled since then

US acquisition of the anti-personnel Switchblade 300 was cancelled recently, the anti-armor 600 was stepped up, both for deliveries to Ukraine and for deployment with US forces on a wide scale.

And, yes, the cancellation seems largely due to experience in Ukraine and the superiority of cheaper, adapted-from-consumer-models drones for anti-personnel use, but its important to note that's not an absence of combat experience—the 300 was rush developed and deployed to combat in Afghanistan in the early 2010s, and used extrnsively there. This is just the learning that happens with different approaches guided by different constraints finding different solutions.

Re: Ex-Google CEO Eric Schmidt Is Working on a Secret Military Drone Project

#88

Post by iteratethis »

ChumpGPT wrote: post #16

After watching 1000's of Ukrainian drone videos, it's absolutely terrifying for the foot soldier these days. You almost stand zero chance and as for vehicles, it can seriously impact their usefulness. APC's,Tanks become scrap metal from a $500 drone carrying a shaped charge. The US has always depended on air superiority to fight its wars, they are completely unprepared for what facing an enemy with superior air defen…

I saw footage from a drone's body heat cam approaching a Russian trench. One of these blurry red shapes put a gun to his head and beat the drone to what was inevitable. They hear it coming and know it's over.

Another piece of footage was even worse. A kamikaze drone isolated a soldier and was intentionally taunting the soldier by flying at it, pulling back, flying at it again. Like a wasp. The ending is predictable.

All of this supplemented by a cheerful "blooper" tune. And the replies show gamer-like excitement.

Re: Ex-Google CEO Eric Schmidt Is Working on a Secret Military Drone Project

#89

Post by riku_iki »

dragonwriter wrote: post #87
riku_iki wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see it very differently: - Ukraine's drones capabilities were built internally using consumer grade hardware - US tried to supply some cutting edge military grade drones(switchblade 300/600), but there is no much reports about them, and program has been canceled since then, I speculate those drones were having significant issues My suspicion is that US small combat drones programs are weak and ineffective.

> US tried to supply some cutting edge military grade drones(switchblade 300/600) “Tried”? > but there is no much reports about them, There are lots of reports about them. > and program has been canceled since then US acquisition of the anti-personnel Switchblade 300 was cancelled recently, the anti-armor 600 was stepped up, both for deliveries to Ukraine and for deployment with US forces on a wide scale. And, yes, t…

> There are lots of reports about them.

I am kinda following this topic, and have seen maybe 2.

> the anti-armor 600 was stepped up

my reading of the news is that army ordered 100 units for testing

but the point is that despite claims of decades of intensive research, etc, US's only visible program is some small third party company with questionable quality, no other projects are visible, while other players (Israel with spike nlos, Russia with lancet, Iran with shahed) have several gens of battle proven tech already.

Re: Ex-Google CEO Eric Schmidt Is Working on a Secret Military Drone Project

#90

Post by hughesjj »

bbor wrote: post #23
dragonwriter wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My take on this is that lacking direct combat experience everything the Americans (and the West more generally) will come up with in terms of drones will be hugely inferior to whatever the Russians are now building America doesn't lack direct combat experience with drone warfare, on either the side using drones or the side being targeted by drones.

Could you explain? I think we’re having a different discussion than the million dollar predator drones that shot missiles at western Asia from a mile up. And to say that defending against ISIS/Houthi/Etc. drones is in any way similar to the experience Ukraine and Russia are getting seems wrong. But I’m probably misunderstanding? In general I’m not 100% convinced by “they use drones so they’re better with them” but it…

I mean not as small as a DJI mini but these have been around for over a decade

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AeroVironment_Switchblade

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