IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023 • Hacker News Board

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#81

Post by itsoktocry » Mon, Jan 08, 2024, 3:29 PM UTC

wbshaw wrote: post #66

itsoktocry wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, if you drop 2 IT jobs, but each one is 150k, but you create 4x 60k jobs, it looks like you added 2 jobs, but in reality, you removed 60k worth of payroll income. But the company saves 60k, so the net (to the economy) is the same.

That is not entirely true. Whereas a company will likely bank that profit, employees are more likely to put that income back into the economy which provides a multiplier effect of the income in overall economic growth.

>That is not entirely true.

No, it's entirely true. The economy is a closed system. Employees can't "put that income back into the economy", because it has never left.

How it gets redistributed will vary, and you can make normative arguments about spending the money at the local coffee shop. But the net effect on the economy is the same.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#82

Post by hotpotamus » Mon, Jan 08, 2024, 3:30 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #42

orochimaaru wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of big-co are setting up subsidiaries overseas and hiring there. It's different from the contract based offshoring model that happened in 2007 or so which had rather disastrous results. I know my company has and plans to have almost 1/2 its IT workforce as direct employees overseas.

Same. My "team" is doubling in size, but all the hires are international.

I've been down this road, and I'm sorry to tell you that your team will be halving again once the international hires are considered onboarded. They might sell it as going to a follow the sun model, but the plan is to move to cheaper labor. I've been through it myself.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#83

Post by taude » Mon, Jan 08, 2024, 3:31 PM UTC

paxys wrote: post #27

commandlinefan wrote: post #7

Don't worry, the U.S. government will respond by increasing the H1B visa cap as they always do.

> as they always do The H1B visa cap has been 65000 since the day it was introduced in 1990.

They added 20K in 2004 [1], for those with high-level degrees, possibly.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_Visa_Reform_Act_of_2004

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#84

Post by giantg2 » Mon, Jan 08, 2024, 3:33 PM UTC

Mc91 wrote: post #48

giantg2 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. My "team" is doubling in size, but all the hires are international.

Same. I work as an SWE at a non-FAANG, non-tech Fortune 100 company. We already had an IT staff in India and would hire consultants in India, but this has been accelerating over the past year - virtually all hires or new consulting contracts have been in India. Some of the SWEs in the US are even being put under PMs in India.

My company is actually doing mostly Europe and ex-US North America

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#85

Post by acdha » Mon, Jan 08, 2024, 3:33 PM UTC

linuxftw wrote: post #61

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter is facing mounting debt, large quarterly loses, and lost tens of billions of dollars in valuation. I wouldn't use that as a success story. From the WSJ, so no complaining about liberal bias. https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-elon-musks-twitter-faces-mo...

All of that is true, but it was true before Elon took over, now they just have fewer employees to pay, so if they can turn the advertising back around, they'll be in a better cashflow situation.

You’re leaving out the massive amount of debt he added to the company as part of the buyout. That means they need to do something like triple their most profitable quarter just to be where they were before the buyout.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#86

Post by hotpotamus » Mon, Jan 08, 2024, 3:34 PM UTC

Pepe1vo wrote: post #57

The cognitive dissonance I'm getting from reading the comments here is pretty staggering. Where I live (The Netherlands) me and every IT person I know is getting absolutely hounded by recruiters. As an additional anecdote I'll add that I've just switched jobs to a start-up on very favorable terms and the recruitment process basically amounted to being cold called and asked "hey you wanna work here?". Can anyone here…

In my experience as an American working with people in the EU (particularly the UK/Western Europe), the developers there are every bit as capable as Americans and get paid less than half of what an American would - seems like quite a deal to me.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#87

Post by acdha » Mon, Jan 08, 2024, 3:36 PM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #65

linuxftw wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe try changing over to management? You might have a shot at a non-tech centric company. Also, don't be above lying about your age.

I was a manager. That's actually a problem. I don't lie; especially in my profession. It's a thing. I know that personal Integrity is considered a "quaint anachronism," in today's world, but I won't compromise on that.

You’re right not to compromise and even if you were less ethical, that’s something which is easily detected and could lead to being fired with no recourse. It’s very reasonable for a company to say someone who lies about simple facts can’t be trusted with anything else.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#88

Post by frankbreetz » Mon, Jan 08, 2024, 3:36 PM UTC

Considering 262k were laid off in 2023. Compared with 165k in 2022. The beginning of 2022 also included the over-hiring phase of the COVID Era[0].

You can see a clear sign of the worst being over and I would expect 2024 to start a return to normalcy again, maybe people will even start hiring again

2022 was not a good time to be entering the industry, but I think for people with 5+ years experience it was not so bad.

[0]https://layoffs.fyi/

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#89

Post by manuelabeledo » Mon, Jan 08, 2024, 3:38 PM UTC

linuxftw wrote: post #61

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter is facing mounting debt, large quarterly loses, and lost tens of billions of dollars in valuation. I wouldn't use that as a success story. From the WSJ, so no complaining about liberal bias. https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-elon-musks-twitter-faces-mo...

All of that is true, but it was true before Elon took over, now they just have fewer employees to pay, so if they can turn the advertising back around, they'll be in a better cashflow situation.

> ... now they just have fewer employees to pay, so if they can turn the advertising back around, they'll be in a better cashflow situation

They cut ~$1B in operating expenses, to go from $4.73B to $3.31B in advertising revenue, and forecasts don't look much better [0]

What has Twitter left to offer? They don't have the manpower to add new functionality, and they are bleeding advertising money.

[0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/271337/twitters-advertis...

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#90

Post by ravenstine » Mon, Jan 08, 2024, 3:39 PM UTC

For most of my career, I was being hounded by various recruiters virtually every day.

For the past few years... crickets.

This told me everything I needed to know, regardless of the many whom have been in denial.