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Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

newyorker.com

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Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#81

Post by galangalalgol »

Lucky-026 wrote: post #66
BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #52

Good thing I didn’t read such a bullshit defeatist conclusion before I dropped 40 lbs 7 years ago (adopted sane diet, never gained it back) and dug myself out of a deep hole of alcohol dependence. haven’t beaten the habit of falling for engagement baiting headlines though i suppose do not let yourself believe you are weak or a victim

I didn't read this particular article but I've heard of other studies that express the same idea. The point isn't that you can't beat bad habits, its that the best way to beat bad habits is making them harder to do. If you want to quit smoking you get rid of your cigarettes. if you want to lose weight you throw away your junk food. Keeping junk food in your house when you're trying to lose weight relies on self contr…

I did have luck once by keeping some candy I didn't like all that much on my desk at work. It was ok, but not great. I think my thought was generally "I could go get a snack, meh, I've got this candy right here! Double meh, doesn't sound that good back to work."

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#83

Post by ceejayoz »

These threads always bring out a whole bunch of people who confuse confirmation bias with population-level statistics.

If you kicked a heroin habit, good for you! Societally we still can’t use “suck it up you pansies” as a drug rehab strategy just on your say-so.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#84

Post by JoeAltmaier »

andrewstuart wrote: post #54

Someone explained to me that the subconscious mind does not like giving up something that it likes in exchange for nothing. Say for example you want to give up smoking. So don't give up. Instead, just stop that behavior for the present time - then your subconscious is not fighting you. So you want a cigarette? Well sure OK you can have one, but defer that decision to have it for some period of time. Maybe start with…

Didn't Mark Twain say "I don't know what all the fuss is about quitting smoking. I must have done it a hundred times"

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#85

Post by mitchbob »

vanjajaja1 wrote: post #25

This kind of study in this kind of magazine smells like they're pushing more 'dont even try' / 'no free will' propaganda... but I do with the premise. Relying on will power to execute is a set up for failure, better to rely on will power to create an environment that helps you succeed.

About the author: https://www.newyorker.com/contributors/jerome-groopman

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#86

Post by renewiltord »

BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #52

Good thing I didn’t read such a bullshit defeatist conclusion before I dropped 40 lbs 7 years ago (adopted sane diet, never gained it back) and dug myself out of a deep hole of alcohol dependence. haven’t beaten the habit of falling for engagement baiting headlines though i suppose do not let yourself believe you are weak or a victim

Misunderstanding. Claim here is that some techniques don’t work as well as others. When I was young, someone told me that if I lifted with my back I’d injure myself. I lifted with my back and didn’t injure myself. Now I know it’s a probabilistic thing. So I lift properly, force through the legs, back straight.

I’m no more a victim now than I was before and I’m not weaker for using the better technique.

But everyone can try what makes it tick for them. Once upon a time, I stored a big tub of ice cream in my freezer. Avoiding it gave me a dopamine hit. So for months I’d eat well and my identity of being someone who could resist it made me eat well. Now I don’t have that identity so I use other techniques. That’s just how it is.

No need to be a Luddite. Science gives us tools to be better.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#87

Post by derbOac »

I was at a research colloquium once and this came up in the context of dieting. The author of that research was making similar statements, although the focus of the research was different.

The problem I had with what they were describing was that they basically defined away willpower. That is, it felt like they basically said "once you control for all the downstream effects of willpower, willpower no longer has an effect." If you think about it, what's really the difference between saying "I'm not going buy cigarettes anymore or have them in my house" and willpower and environmental control?

There was more to it than that but that was the gist of the thing. They defined willpower so extremely narrowly that it didn't have the same meaning anymore, and it wasn't clear what would be left.

But it was several years ago and I haven't followed the literature closely.

I can see how just willing yourself to not do something, in itself, is probably not enough, but I'm also not sure how you can do that without it resulting in a whole set of things that collectively probably define the consequences of willing yourself not to do that thing. That is, removing something from your environment, or removing yourself from the environment, changing your attentional focus, finding something else to occupy your motivations, and so forth.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#88

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

k8svet wrote: post #53

I really like this thread. Thanks to those for sharing their own processes and tricks. It's fascinating the ways people trick themselves into will power. Cool stuff, potentially life changing. I wrote and deleted mine a few times. Will power is weird and I've found weird ways of enabling some in myself. And then some I can't explain. I've been destroying my fingers for literally 30 years and about a month ago I decid…

I've chewed my fingernails for pretty much my whole life. In 2004, before my 2nd marriage, I manage to resolve to grow them out for the wedding. I succeeded, but a couple of months later they were all gone again.

This spring I cycled from Santa Fe to Seattle (18 days). Pretty hard to chew your nails while they are down the handlebars all day. It was the first time in 20 years, and only the 2nd time in my life, that I had fingernails.

It's now nearly 7 months later, and somehow I still have them. It's pretty awesome having actual fingernails, although it's a ton of work to keep them in shape (which is what prevents me from chewing - I would never chew a perfectly good nail, only a damaged one). Scratching my own head (previously something I would have to rely on intimate partners to do) is so awesome, and this keeps me going.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#89

Post by pi-e-sigma »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #63
elchief wrote: post #43

use your lack of will power to your advantage fill your fridge with healthy food, and force yourself to leave the house if you want junk food

Move to a small village with no services and 25 miles from the nearest town, so you'll have to drive for an hour round trip if you want junk food (or any food, actually).

Better yet, get rid of your car, too. 25 miles of trekking will offset any calories intake if you happen to actually make it to the town

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#90

Post by JoeAltmaier »

proc0 wrote: post #2

> Wood ends her book with advice for those of us who have become hostages to our smartphones. She offers a stepwise strategy. First, recognize your dependency, and acknowledge how the habit disrupts work, social interactions, and safe driving. Next, “control the context cues,” meaning identify what triggers you to grab the phone That still requires will power. It could probably be reduced to intention, and not so muc…

I can ignore my phone indefinitely. Leave it uncharged for a weekend, or even a week.

My spouse obsesses about it, to the point of badgering me to check out some notification that I'm ignoring. Can't rest until I've looked at it. If I ask her to stop, she gets upset, I'm picking on her. Gotta be addiction.

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