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Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

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Re: Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

#81

Post by TylerE »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #43
blindriver wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing to be “terrified” about. You are conflating different types of “long covid”. Some covid infections, just like the cold or the flu, cause symptoms longer than the 5-7 days, maybe for 2-3 weeks. That’s long covid. Also remember that long covid symptoms include symptoms like depression and it ends up not being very rigorously defined. Then there is the version that creates long term chronic fatigue symp…

> I know someone who got the vaccine and she ended up being crippled by arthritis from the vaccine wat.

Maybe the needle hit/pinched a nerve? That's the only scenario that seems even vaguely possible.

Re: Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

#82

Post by s1artibartfast »

DoughnutHole wrote: post #72
blindriver wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing to be “terrified” about. You are conflating different types of “long covid”. Some covid infections, just like the cold or the flu, cause symptoms longer than the 5-7 days, maybe for 2-3 weeks. That’s long covid. Also remember that long covid symptoms include symptoms like depression and it ends up not being very rigorously defined. Then there is the version that creates long term chronic fatigue symp…

I wouldn’t characterise 1% as an “extremely small chance”, especially considering the prevalence of the disease, especially if it’s possible to develop it on your second or 3rd infection. Would you play Russian roulette with a gun with 100 chambers? Compared to new-onset arthritis from the vaccine - the biggest lit review I can find found 45 confirmed cases across 31 studies. [1] For comparison there are over 730,000…

1% can be either small or large in comparison to the background rate of CFS.

Re: Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

#83

Post by feoren »

Zelphyr wrote: post #79
feoren wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Palmer also sheds light on the new treatment pathways this theory opens up--which apply to all mental disorders, including anxiety, depression, ADHD, alcoholism, eating disorders, bipolar disorder, autism, and even schizophrenia. Because he's an obvious hack who's completely full of shit? I always wondered what kind of person would ever have bought those early 1900s "Dr. Amazing's Medicinal Tonic" claims about curi…

Can you give concrete evidential examples that refute his claims?

Sure can, right after you give me concrete evidential examples that refute the Time Cube guy. The reason people don't bother to refute bullshit-on-their-face claims is because it takes 20x more effort to refute a bullshit claim than to make one in the first place, and it's absolutely pointless to argue with a hack who never intended to base his argument on evidence anyway. The best thing to do with these guys is completely ignore them, the same way they ignored the vast body of human knowledge and understanding in the first place.

Re: Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

#84

Post by buzzert »

radicalbyte wrote: post #48

An interesting fact: this research was paid for by crowd funding because the Ministry of Health refused to fund it. The Netherlands is also unique in Europe as the only country which does not even try to treat this condition. If you get ME/CFS you are, quite literally, left to die here. Unless someone in your network looks after you.

Has anybody died from ME/CFS?

Re: Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

#85

Post by Zelphyr »

feoren wrote: post #83
Zelphyr wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give concrete evidential examples that refute his claims?

Sure can, right after you give me concrete evidential examples that refute the Time Cube guy. The reason people don't bother to refute bullshit-on-their-face claims is because it takes 20x more effort to refute a bullshit claim than to make one in the first place, and it's absolutely pointless to argue with a hack who never intended to base his argument on evidence anyway. The best thing to do with these guys is comp…

I'm not saying you're wrong in your view of Dr. Palmer. I can see this is a subject that you have strong feelings about but, unfortunately, you've given me nothing to work with. I'm earnestly trying to understand another side of his claims, which is why I asked for more concrete evidence.

I had not heard of "the Time Cube guy" before but a quick search brings up a lot of conspiracy theories. However, I don't see what that has to do with Dr. Palmer's Brain Energy theory.

For what it's worth, I hate conspiracy theories. It's intellectual laziness. So, when you said Dr. Palmer's Brain Energy theory is pseudoscience I immediately wanted to know more because I want to be able to disregard it if the facts warrant that.

Re: Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

#86

Post by timbit42 »

francisofascii wrote: post #64

I don't think "tiredness" is a good word for the title. The type of symptoms experienced as post-exertional malaise is not really the same being sleepy.

When I had an ulcer and was losing blood and therefore iron, I described it to my doctor as not being tired but weak and lacking stamina. Would those be better descriptions?

Re: Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

#87

Post by vikingerik »

kick_in_the_dor wrote: post #5

> we saw that the mitochondria of the muscle, also known as the energy factories of the cell *Ahem*, powerhouse of the cell Jokes aside, this is a terrifying stat: "Although the majority of people infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus recover within weeks...around one in eight will get long-COVID. Symptoms in patients with long-COVID...include severe cognitive problems (brain fog), fatigue, exercise intolerance, autonom…

It's less terrifying when you make the proper comparison. What proportion of people would self-report brain fog, fatigue, etc, on any given day with nothing to do with Covid? Probably close to one in eight.

Re: Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

#88

Post by timr »

faitswulff wrote: post #77
timr wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the symptoms are "a lingering cough" (which is what we're talking about most of the time ), it's not terrifying. It's just something you ignored before and are not ignoring now. As OP notes, there are certainly some small fraction people with worse outcomes. But the generic "long covid" term has mixed up all sorts of things -- from hospital syndrome (absolutely real! but very rare!) to symptoms that anyone would…

> The link to dementia likely falls in this bucket. The article I linked to wasn't about covid.

The argument wasn't specific to Covid. The people who get "severe viral infections" tend to be people who are old and unhealthy to begin with. When you start with a population of medical records (as this study did) you unavoidably bias your sample toward sicker people.

Observational studies don't/can't perfectly correct for this residual confounding. This exact error has been repeatedly made by "long Covid" research as well (most notably by Ziyad Al-Aly, who has published a half dozen different articles on Long Covid using the same confounded, observational VA medical record dataset, and claimed associations with a huge number of different illnesses. This research is garbage, but it has scared people out of their wits.)

Re: Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

#89

Post by reify »

As with any of this research into long covid, it feels deceptive to me.

Where is the clarity and consice exacting standards that we are supposed to be in awe of in the scientific community

Why is there no mention of whether or not the test subjects had been vaccinated.

How do we know that the vaccine did not cause the same symptoms?

Surely, only then, could we, I mean I, put this thinking to bed and move on.

For balance and clarity I would like to see the same research done on those who have had the vaccine.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38865876 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-44432-3

Re: Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

#90

Post by progrus »

babypuncher wrote: post #24
progrus wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One mechanism is physiological stress when people believe they’ve been cursed: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447278/

You keep bringing that up, but Long Covid is exceptionally well documented at this point. We can't pretend it's entirely in peoples heads like you seem to be doing.

Absolutely not what I’m doing… I used the phrase “one of” for a reason
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