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Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

forbes.com

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Re: Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

#81

Post by faeriechangling »

c0balt wrote: post #2

> “The original purpose of tuition discounting was to make higher education affordable to low-income students,” Bridgewater president David W. Bushman said in a press release explaining the dramatic shift. “But over time, the practice has resulted in higher and higher tuition sticker prices that bear little resemblance to the actual cost of education. This somehow seems inevitable in hindsight. It is quite bizarre, a…

The pricing makes a lot of sense when you consider there’s one price for domestic students and one price for international ones.

Re: Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

#82

Post by faeriechangling »

xvedejas wrote: post #22
elliotec wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think so. > As of 2023, approximately 44 million Americans carry student loan debt, with the total student loan debt in the United States reaching $1.76 trillion according to the Federal Reserve. This figure includes both federal and private student loans. It's notable that the number of people with federal student loans is around 43.4 million, and there are about 3.5 million private student loan borrowers, l…

I held a similar level of student loan debt, and it was worth it. My earnings are much larger thanks to the degree it enabled me to pursue, and I was able to pay it off early. While I don't think the system is ideal, just the existence of student debt isn't indicative of an issue, we'd need to look at statistics around what proportion of borrowers have undue hardship as a result.

Doing things like making it so student debt isn’t dischargeable in bankruptcy effectively creates a market for more credit than would exist otherwise. Student debt should at least be held to the same standards as regular debt.

Re: Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

#83

Post by starttoaster »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #21
starttoaster wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMO, “shopping” for college shouldn’t be anything like buying a used car. The prices should be affordable and publicly shared. The price of a used car is more transparent than US universities. I think the main comparison for the cost of going to college is more similar to the cost of going to the emergency room. You get individual bills coming in from every doctor and nurse that gave a sideways glance at your X-Ray…

Food and accomodation shouldn’t be a surprise cost, as it wouldn’t be if you buy plane tickets to Thailand. Is there any real gotcha costs that you only find out later?

Food is not really a surprise cost. Accommodation is surprising with how much it costs considering you're basically staying in an tenement home with people stacked on top of each other.

Re: Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

#84

Post by gumby »

recursive wrote: post #76
thfuran wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Assuming students carry their debt for 45 years I don't think that's common. I especially don't think it was common ~45 years ago.

It's a totally bonkers assumption. If it was true, it seems to support a slightly different version of the same point. A 45 year loan on education doesn't seem like the result of a successful system.

Well my n is small. Tenured faculty at Stanford, still paying after 30 y and unlikely to pay off in next decade (note: not in CS, Economics, or business which pay the big bucks). Have heard other faculty discuss this at dinner parties too.

I graduated 35 years ago and back then was able to pay my MIT tuition by consulting over the summer + January. CS of course during the AI boom. Doubt that’s possible today.

I think the financing of education in the US is absurd and broken, but there is some logic to spreading the financing of an asset over the lifetime of the asset.

Re: Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

#85

Post by TheNewsIsHere »

burnte wrote: post #42
smt88 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The college system in the US works well. The vast majority of students go to community colleges or public schools and end up with very little debt (if any). The nightmare stories you hear are about the small, vocal minority that go to expensive private schools and/or major in something that doesn't pay well (like theatre) and/or get Masters degrees that put them in debt.

> The college system in the US works well. From an educational standpoint, this is arguable, as most students are forced to take classes unrelated to their area of study simply to fill out a the credit requirements. But overall our schools are world class. It's the money side that's a wreck. > The vast majority of students go to community colleges or public schools and end up with very little debt (if any). The night…

> The college system in the US works well.

> > From an educational standpoint, this is arguable, as most students are forced to take classes unrelated to their area of study simply to fill out a the credit requirements.

The point of this is to help round out an education. I started and finished my college career as a science student, but in the middle I switched to humanities. I witnessed an extraordinary difference in the ability to clearly articulate ideas between those areas which really highlighted for me the value in requiring a curriculum beyond just a student’s chosen major.

Re: Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

#86

Post by shkkmo »

smt88 wrote: post #73
shkkmo wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the current debt load, not the debt load graduated with nor the amount that will end up paid over the lifetime of the debt. Even so, calling a 5 figure debt load "very little" is flat out ridiculous.

$25,000 is basically nothing compared to the extra earning potential of the degree. It's less than a lot of cars. A good saver could pay it off in under 5 years without noticing a decrease in lifestyle.

Oh good. Glad you make enough money to view 25k as such a measley sum. Most people don't and this median debt load already mostly excludes people like you who payed off thir debt in 5 years.

It so funny that you guys are so quick to point out the difference between media and mean when it serves your world view but completely ignore all the other statistical factors. Like comparing q lifetime average earnings of all college graduates aganist the median debt load of those who still have debt. Rich people don't leave college with as much debt and don't hold it as long. Not all degrees pay equally so people with lower paying degrees will be disproportionately represented in that data set.

I know many college graduates for whom even making minimum payments on a 25k debt would significantly impact their quality of life.

You don't have to feel guilty for your privilege, but don't let it blind you to reality.

Re: Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

#87

Post by leereeves »

shkkmo wrote: post #86
smt88 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$25,000 is basically nothing compared to the extra earning potential of the degree. It's less than a lot of cars. A good saver could pay it off in under 5 years without noticing a decrease in lifestyle.

Oh good. Glad you make enough money to view 25k as such a measley sum. Most people don't and this median debt load already mostly excludes people like you who payed off thir debt in 5 years. It so funny that you guys are so quick to point out the difference between media and mean when it serves your world view but completely ignore all the other statistical factors. Like comparing q lifetime average earnings of all c…

> Not all degrees pay equally so people with lower paying degrees will be disproportionately represented in that data set.

This is true. A degree that doesn't increase earnings by at least $1/hour (enough to cover the payments on a $25k student loan), is a financial mistake.

If someone spends four years doing what they love and not working, without a care for what will happen afterwards, they should expect it to significantly impact their quality of life afterwards. Being able to do that at all is quite a privilege.

I come from a working class family in which most people didn't go to college, so I don't forget what a privilege it was to be able to go to college nor how valuable a well chosen education is.

Re: Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

#88

Post by taurath »

xvedejas wrote: post #78
taurath wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I don’t think it’s ideal that people who are going into less lucrative but still incredibly important societal roles should have to give up the ability to have basic needs like stable housing met because the cost of getting into those roles preclude the ability to meet basic needs.

I am not sure if you're in agreement or not, but yes, loans help access things that cost money (like basic needs) in the case that earnings are deferred due to education. Student loans generally require no payments until 6 months after education ends.

Right but it’s also debt that doesn’t need to be incurred, which puts people way behind the starting line, especially when the student loans come due and people can’t afford to pay for a house

Re: Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

#89

Post by shkkmo »

leereeves wrote: post #87
shkkmo wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh good. Glad you make enough money to view 25k as such a measley sum. Most people don't and this median debt load already mostly excludes people like you who payed off thir debt in 5 years. It so funny that you guys are so quick to point out the difference between media and mean when it serves your world view but completely ignore all the other statistical factors. Like comparing q lifetime average earnings of all c…

> Not all degrees pay equally so people with lower paying degrees will be disproportionately represented in that data set. This is true. A degree that doesn't increase earnings by at least $1/hour (enough to cover the payments on a $25k student loan), is a financial mistake. If someone spends four years doing what they love and not working, without a care for what will happen afterwards, they should expect it to sign…

> This is true. A degree that doesn't increase earnings by at least $1/hour (enough to cover the payments on a $25k student loan), is a financial mistake.

1$ per hour seems on the far low end to cover that much debt. Also, the 25k number isn't the amount that was owed at graduation, but rather still owed some number of years into the repayment term so the actuall monthly payment is likely even higher.

Additionally, many of the lower paying jobs are still ones that we need as a society. While everyone picking lucrative degrees is good for them, it would be bad for us as a society.

Even so, I'm not disputing that the vast majority do pay for themselves in time. I'm saying that financial burdens imposed by student loan are significant. I would also posit that this repayment can hamper the ability for people to make other investments that improve their productivity and long term earning potential. Instead of the financial safety net enjoyed by the more well off, it does the opposite and increases risks.

Re: Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

#90

Post by burnte »

TheNewsIsHere wrote: post #85
burnte wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The college system in the US works well. From an educational standpoint, this is arguable, as most students are forced to take classes unrelated to their area of study simply to fill out a the credit requirements. But overall our schools are world class. It's the money side that's a wreck. > The vast majority of students go to community colleges or public schools and end up with very little debt (if any). The night…

> The college system in the US works well. > > From an educational standpoint, this is arguable, as most students are forced to take classes unrelated to their area of study simply to fill out a the credit requirements. The point of this is to help round out an education. I started and finished my college career as a science student, but in the middle I switched to humanities. I witnessed an extraordinary difference…

That's one argument, another is they're filler to make people think paying huge sums is reasonable for what they get. If these classes were teste for and only given to those who need it, I could believe it was for student enrichment. This is rarely the real case, and many administrators will admit it.
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