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Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

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Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#81

Why doesn't Apple enter into a deal with Masimo for a small percentage of the watch? Unless I missed it, the news article didn't go into more detail on why a deal couldn't be made.

That would be the obvious solution, but it’s not surprising they couldn’t agree on a price when they operate in very different industries. Masimo makes medical devices, ones whose prices are probably both high and skewed by insurance. Apple is a consumer devices company and may not be able to justify a high royalty price and still meet certain consumer price points. Another possibility is that Apple’s watches may be…

Apple isn’t going to go into medical devices that are certified for diagnostic use unless they’re nuts. There’s a lot of money there, but it’s hard to get and way outside their core businesses.

That $8 pulse oximeter from aliexpress is better than nothing, but it’s a long way from what Masimo or Medtronic (Nellcor) sell.

And the prices for oximeters aren’t really affected by insurance, as individuals almost never get them at diagnostic grade. They’re durable, have screens that convey more than just a number, electrically isolated from the patient… there’s a lot going on there that is not, at first glance, obvious to the layman.

(I’m an anesthesiologist; pulse oximetry with a good waveform display is a critical monitor for us. I would rather have a good pulse ox than any other non-invasive monitor, if I could only have one.)

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#82
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m holding judgement until the case is investigated further. It’s my understanding that so far everyone has basically said, “there’s enough evidence to proceed in court.” Patent reform is something that is sorely needed (and more funding for the USPTO). Take for example this patent on an anti gravity device: https://www.nature.com/articles/438139a#:~:text=The%20US%20p... . And then there’s the patent troll problem.…

As an outsider, it certainly looks like they “re-engineered” the other companies tech and introd into their devices.

Don’t they have to reverse engineer it in a clean room? Also, Masimo said they poached a lot of their talent who understood the patent and its uses.

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#83

I can't decide if I'd be a fool to buy an Apple Watch right now. I'm ready for an upgrade, but I fear what happens long term if hardware changes are necessary.

Apple has increasingly moved towards a disposable tech paradigm. They seem to want, expect, and maybe even contrive a reason for you to throw away your device and buy a new one every year.

They tend to support their old devices for 5-10 years

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#84
post #4

I trust Apple's commitment to privacy as much as I do Google's, but when they both remove a product over a stupid patent rather than pay the patent holder (Sonos' sued Google with their multiroom audio patent), we can see that it's possible for corporations to hold principled views about things.

Google doesn't do business in China because they won't agree to the privacy violating terms of doing so, that is at least a $1T principle if you compare it to the amount of hardware and services that Apple sells there.

Doesn’t every Chinese smartphone run android? Is that totally without profit? Honest question.

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#85
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an outsider, it certainly looks like they “re-engineered” the other companies tech and introd into their devices.

Don’t they have to reverse engineer it in a clean room? Also, Masimo said they poached a lot of their talent who understood the patent and its uses.

Patents can't be circumvented with the "Chinese wall" idea that happens with copyright-based reverse engineering. There is no alternative to licensing if you want to use a technology.

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the alternative? Not play the patent game and die by the patent anyway?

For most people and companies, yes. But for Apple? They could have used their money and influence to campaign for patent reform.

Should've started after the IAP patent troll debacle.

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#87
post #41
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When has Apple ever sued over patent infringement? There was the Samsung case [1] but that was a design issue. Apple, Google, Meta and other big tech companies have used patents defensively not offensively . That is, as mutually-assured destruction. The real villains in this story are the patent holding companies that sue in East Texas to get in front of one judge that, at a time, heard a quarter of all US patent cas…

Would you accept weaponized trademark infringement as a sibling to patent law? The behavior described here seems odd -- I wouldn't call it "good" or "bad" in a moral sense just technically impressive: https://blog.giovanh.com/blog/2023/10/26/apples-trademark-ex... and https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/14/21436760/us-customs-state... .

[deleted]

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the alternative? Not play the patent game and die by the patent anyway?

For most people and companies, yes. But for Apple? They could have used their money and influence to campaign for patent reform.

Why would they do that?

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#89
post #78
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When has Apple ever sued over patent infringement? There was the Samsung case [1] but that was a design issue. Apple, Google, Meta and other big tech companies have used patents defensively not offensively . That is, as mutually-assured destruction. The real villains in this story are the patent holding companies that sue in East Texas to get in front of one judge that, at a time, heard a quarter of all US patent cas…

While not "sue-ing" but instead the other way - being trying to avoid paying for patented tech. They tried to stop paying licenses for their PowerVR-derived GPUs, which they were explicitly developed from so no "convergent evolution" excuses. Announcing it to the market then caused a massive abandonment of PowerVR and stock price drop, and purchase at fire sale prices by a Chinese "Strategic investment" group. It nev…

Foxconn and TSMC have good businesses on being suppliers to Apple. Sharp too until they got acquired by Foxconn.

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t they have to reverse engineer it in a clean room? Also, Masimo said they poached a lot of their talent who understood the patent and its uses.

Patents can't be circumvented with the "Chinese wall" idea that happens with copyright-based reverse engineering. There is no alternative to licensing if you want to use a technology.

Oh it’s for copyright only. So what legal standing does Apple have and why didn’t they just pay the licensing fee? Unless they wanted litigation to go after these type of patents being sealed off?
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