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"I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

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Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#81

Post by isp »

behrlich wrote: post #72
iLoveOncall wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as a filtered LLM output. How do you plan on avoiding leaks or "side effects" like the tweet here? If you just look for keywords in the output, I'll ask ChatGPT to encode its answers in base64. You can literally always bypass any safeguard.

> You can literally always bypass any safeguard. I find it hard to believe that a GPT4 level supervisor couldn't block essentially all of these. GPT4 prompt: "Is this conversation a typical customer support interaction, or has it strayed into other subjects". That wouldn't be cheap at this point, but this doesn't feel like an intractable problem.

Counterexample: https://gandalf.lakera.ai/

Discussed at: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35905876 "Gandalf – Game to make an LLM reveal a secret password" (May 2023, 351 comments)

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#82

Post by htrp »

DougBTX wrote: post #73
MichaelRo wrote: post #54

I never understand people who engage with chat bots as customer service. I find them deeply upsetting, not one step above the phone robot on Vodafone support: "press 1 for internet problems" ... "press 2 to be transferred to a human representative". Only problem is going through like 7 steps until I can reach that human, then waiting some 30 minutes until the line is free. But it's the only approach that gets anythin…

> Talking to a human. Fun twist: state of the art is RAG for call centre operators, so you’re talking to a human but _they_ are being prompted by AI.

Not sure if its state of the art now.

ASAPP has been doing that for literally years.

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#83

Post by ejb999 »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #35
DoctorMckay101 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not gonna lie. The moment a company refuses a refund or a return that complies with their policies, or just stalls me for more than 30 minutes, I'm calling a governmental customer protection agency and issuing a "comply or get sued" through them. Had to do it once with Sony and another time with an electronics insurance company. Money was back in my account in less than 24h.

You’re going to have a hard time suing most companies. You will likely have to pursue binding arbitration.

don't you have to have already agreed in the binding arbitration and waived your right to sue - in writing - ahead of time?

Not sure that if you have no prior agreement with someone that you can force them to not sue and use arbitration instead. Not a lawyer, but that is my understanding (in the USA anyway)

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#84

Post by paradite »

MichaelRo wrote: post #54

I never understand people who engage with chat bots as customer service. I find them deeply upsetting, not one step above the phone robot on Vodafone support: "press 1 for internet problems" ... "press 2 to be transferred to a human representative". Only problem is going through like 7 steps until I can reach that human, then waiting some 30 minutes until the line is free. But it's the only approach that gets anythin…

Maybe it's a sampling bias?

You don't realize how useful the bots are, because you only recounted or encountered those occasions where the bots are not useful.

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#85

Post by ceejayoz »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #79
ceejayoz wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But why is it so much different from "Inspect Element" and then changing website content to whatever you please? For the same reasons forging a contract is different from getting an idiot to sign one.

You just add a disclaimer that none of what the bot says is legally binding, and it's an aid tool for finding the information that you are looking for. What's the problem with that?

Do we want to turn customer service over to "this might all be bullshit" generators? Imagine coming into the showroom, agreeing on a price for a car, doing all the paperwork, and having them tell you that wasn't legally binding because of some small print somewhere?

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#86

Post by hiAndrewQuinn »

robviren wrote: post #70
bradfa wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I chatted with a chat bot this morning for getting reimbursed for a recalled product. It went fine. It was quick and easy. Chat bots type a lot faster than call center pay-grade humans.

I'll take a human any day. The amount of times I've had a person say "Oh. I see the system always does this." And suddenly my previously intractable problem disappeared is staggering. Granted experienced people are hard to find, but when false positives occur it's the only thing I have seen fix it. I need that.

If only there was a way to speak to a chat bot first, in order to filter out the 90/99/99.9/99.99% of problems that can be handled efficiently by the automaton, and then transfer to a human being for the most difficult tasks!

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#87

Post by pavel_lishin »

mrweasel wrote: post #80
richbell wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you need to chat with a bot for that? I've seen a worrying trend of companies creating what could be basic forms as "interactive" chat bots.

It could be a form, but a custom one. You'd need someone to create the form, put it some on the website where people can find it. The bot already has a spot, no need for a new interface/form, it's easy enough to find and it's just a small update to the database powering the bot.

Easy for the company, maybe, but it puts me in the awkward position of having to roleplay with a robot.

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#88

Post by eddieroger »

MichaelRo wrote: post #54

I never understand people who engage with chat bots as customer service. I find them deeply upsetting, not one step above the phone robot on Vodafone support: "press 1 for internet problems" ... "press 2 to be transferred to a human representative". Only problem is going through like 7 steps until I can reach that human, then waiting some 30 minutes until the line is free. But it's the only approach that gets anythin…

One of the car dealers near me purchased a chatbot for their site, which I briefly interacted with the other day out of curiosity. Unlike the one in the article, this one denied being a robot, eventually hanging up on me when I pressed. For a little bit, I found that as long as I was asking it real questions, it would play along.

I found the parent company's site, and was greeted by the same local persona ("but in a different building" than my dealer) offering to tell me about the services they provide.

I don't have a huge problem with useful chatbots (which these weren't), but I do have a problem with them outright lying about their nature. I can vote with my dollars on companies that still employ human support, but I think we're in trouble if we don't have to identify AI being used.

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#89

Post by szundi »

MichaelRo wrote: post #54

I never understand people who engage with chat bots as customer service. I find them deeply upsetting, not one step above the phone robot on Vodafone support: "press 1 for internet problems" ... "press 2 to be transferred to a human representative". Only problem is going through like 7 steps until I can reach that human, then waiting some 30 minutes until the line is free. But it's the only approach that gets anythin…

Here the line breaks after the 30 minutes and good luck with next try

Re: "I just bought a 2024 Chevy Tahoe for $1"

#90

Post by bradfa »

richbell wrote: post #60
bradfa wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I chatted with a chat bot this morning for getting reimbursed for a recalled product. It went fine. It was quick and easy. Chat bots type a lot faster than call center pay-grade humans.

Did you need to chat with a bot for that? I've seen a worrying trend of companies creating what could be basic forms as "interactive" chat bots.

Yes, it required me to chat with a bot to do the process. It could have been a form but some of the choices for which recalled products and how many of each recalled product would have likely made the form rather convoluted.

Chat bots like this, where basically they're executing a wizard type questionnaire seem totally reasonable to me. It's approachable to a wide audience, only asks you one question at a time in a clear way, and can easily be executed on a mobile device or normal computer.

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