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Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

nytimes.com

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Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#81

Post by moolcool »

LordKeren wrote: post #45
cush wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because a manufacturer applies a fix OTA doesn’t make it not a recall. Recall is just a term. Regulators issue the recall. How the manufacturer performs the fix can vary.

Yeah, but it is plainly obvious that “recall” is a loaded term here. Yes, it is strictly true that it is the name for the thing that regulators are saying— But nothing is getting “recalled” in the literal meaning of the word. “Tesla ships mandatory software update OTA to address bug” is much more accurate to how this affects real people.

The term is rightfully loaded, and it is being used correctly. The hazard being an OTA patchable software issue doesn't soften the risk, so why soften the language?

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#82

Post by vorticalbox »

sidcool wrote: post #64
filoleg wrote: post #2

Note: “tesla recalls” == “tesla pushes OTA software update (just like any regular OTA update)”

I commented on a post on X stating about the recall. I said that it's an OTA. But many people said technically it's a recall.

Is it? I don't see android "recalling" android devices every update.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#83

Post by jfoster »

MBCook wrote: post #58
Oras wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > Tesla began issuing an “over-the-air software remedy” to certain vehicles on Tuesday, safety officials said. The remaining vehicles will receive software updates later, and all updates will be free for the cars’ owners. I was confused as to why Tesla needs to "recall" when they can do OTA update. The title is misleading surprise

It’s not misleading. This is a NHTSA forced recall. That means something legally. The automaker is required by law to correct it. That does not mean the car must physically go in, it’s just that until recently that’s how everyone did it because they didn’t have OTA updates. A recall is still a recall.

"Legally mandated OTA update" would not be misleading.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#84

Post by _ea1k »

dharmab wrote: post #5

The recall report: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V838-8276.PDF This recall is specifically targeted at the system that monitors if the driver is paying attention.

Thank you, the report itself is more useful than most of the news articles.

TBH, this sounds like... not much. The alerts will be louder and more prominent, and maybe it can't be turned on close to stop signs or traffic lights now. Not that engaging it there was normal before. :shrug

The so-called "FSD" feature seems to be unaffected, since its operational domain was already different.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#86

Post by chrisco255 »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #69
MBCook wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is loaded. It means a critical safety issue has been found by the government and they’re forcing it to be fixed. That comes with various timeline and notification requirements. That’s all it means. Whether or not you have to drive to a specific building to get it done is not and never has been a requirement of the recall process. That’s just how automakers have done it, mostly out of lack of OTA and unwillingness…

We need a different word. This is not a recall.

Software update with a critical fix?

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#87

Post by jillesvangurp »

filoleg wrote: post #2

Note: “tesla recalls” == “tesla pushes OTA software update (just like any regular OTA update)”

> The update will add new, more prominent visual alerts and checks for the Autosteer function, which is part of Autopilot.

Nothing was actually broken but regulators just insist on more alerts and Tesla just implemented those and is rolling them out with a routine software update. But that's a less dramatic headline.

Actual recalls are less frequent unless there is a hardware problem like the wheels falling of a toyota: https://electrek.co/2022/06/23/toyota-recalls-bz4x-electric-...

Some, manufacturers of course don't have the ability to do OTA updates for their cars and need to recall the car to perform software updates. Especially firmware of components sourced from third parties (e.g. engine software) is usually a bit more tricky. Even with manufacturers that do have OTA updates, it's often limited to just the entertainment software.

Tesla doesn't have that issue because they design components in house and don't have a lot of external software suppliers (if any at all). So, they can fix just about any software issue with over the air updates and make the car better over time. Some of the Chinese EV manufacturers do the same. But more manufacturers should do that.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#88

Post by WillPostForFood »

MBCook wrote: post #62
LordKeren wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but it is plainly obvious that “recall” is a loaded term here. Yes, it is strictly true that it is the name for the thing that regulators are saying— But nothing is getting “recalled” in the literal meaning of the word. “Tesla ships mandatory software update OTA to address bug” is much more accurate to how this affects real people.

It is loaded. It means a critical safety issue has been found by the government and they’re forcing it to be fixed. That comes with various timeline and notification requirements. That’s all it means. Whether or not you have to drive to a specific building to get it done is not and never has been a requirement of the recall process. That’s just how automakers have done it, mostly out of lack of OTA and unwillingness…

It means a critical safety issue has been found by the government and they’re forcing it to be fixed.

Manufacturers can initiate recalls, they aren't always, or mostly, issues found by the NHTSA. They are required to report them to the NHTSA who track and monitor them. I wouldn't say they are necessarily "critical" either. Here is the list of recalls for a 2005 Toyota Camry, for example.

https://www.autosafety.org/vehicle-safety-check/2005-toyota-...

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#89

Post by csa »

peterept wrote: post #68
csa wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you a new Tesla owner? > I got a software update that seemed to add auto steer to my non-autopilot model y. All (edit: new since 2019) Teslas come with autopilot. “Full self driving” is an add on. > I tried it a few times on the highway but it seemed erratic (switching off randomly and dangerously engaging regenerative brakes in the fast lane) “Switching off” usually means that it can’t identify the lane it’s sup…

Auto-pilot is not on all Teslas as it was a paid upgrade til mid-2019. My M3 does not have auto-pilot!

Thanks. Fixed.

I didn’t realize early M3s didn’t have it.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#90

Post by spiderice »

moolcool wrote: post #81
LordKeren wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but it is plainly obvious that “recall” is a loaded term here. Yes, it is strictly true that it is the name for the thing that regulators are saying— But nothing is getting “recalled” in the literal meaning of the word. “Tesla ships mandatory software update OTA to address bug” is much more accurate to how this affects real people.

The term is rightfully loaded, and it is being used correctly. The hazard being an OTA patchable software issue doesn't soften the risk, so why soften the language?

Because having one word mean two different things is less clear than having two words that mean two different things.
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