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DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

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Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#81

Post by ratsmack »

hoten wrote: post #12
koolba wrote: post #8

> Dashers who deliver in NYC will now earn at least $29.93 per hour of active time, nearly twice NYC’s $15 minimum wage for other workers. What’s a realistic amount of “active time” per hour? I’m assuming waiting for a job is not active time right? > These new regulations will force us to raise fees for orders in New York City. In order to better balance the impact of these new costs, we’re moving the option to tip i…

They should be forced to be honest and call it a bid, not a tip.

Tipping in the US has become an obligation or entitlement and is rarely associated with the actual service anymore.

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#82

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

jon_richards wrote: post #42
hoten wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should be forced to be honest and call it a bid, not a tip.

I think it should be illegal to ask for a variable tip before a service is substantially completed. Go ahead and charge a fixed gratuity, but prepaying tips is silly.

It definitely shouldn't be unlawful for the service provider to ask prior to completing the service but I really wish more people would see it as distasteful, as seemingly most forms of drip pricing are considered. Obviously the tip is for exceptionally good service; if it's baked into the sale price then it's just another form of drip pricing.

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#83

Post by squeaky-clean »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #55
Fernicia wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Food delivery is a luxury that should only be afforded to the wealthy. There are far too many delivery drivers serving low income areas. We must price out those neighbourhoods immediately.

Poor people can't afford luxuries. It is an unfortunate truth. Having another human do something for you requires you be able to afford their labor. Sometimes we subsidize if you cannot afford it (healthcare). Sometimes we don't (fast food delivery). If you believe you're entitled to undervaluing someone else's labor below a living wage while being poor yourself, can't help that. Belief systems are weird.

Food delivery didn't used to be a luxury back in the days when you had to actually call up your local pizza or Chinese place.

Is Papa John's really considered a luxury?

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#84

Post by jltsiren »

Nextgrid wrote: post #46
kiba wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't really viable business models to begin with. Only VC funding can keep these online platform up.

The basic concept of food delivery existed long before tech and VC and was viable. The only reason these companies can't turn a profit is because all those microservices, ads and "engagement" don't come for free.

Food delivery existed before platforms, but only where it made sense. You could order something like a pizza, where the marginal cost and effort required to make another meal was low, and the sales volume was high enough to justify using paid employees for delivery. Service area was also chosen by the restaurant itself to ensure that they would not spend too much time on a single delivery.

In the end, it's pretty simple. How many deliveries does a single person make in an hour, including idle time? Is someone paying enough for that? And does the kitchen have enough spare capacity for that?

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#85

Post by [deleted] »

Bostonian wrote: post #80
toomuchtodo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor people can't afford luxuries. It is an unfortunate truth. Having another human do something for you requires you be able to afford their labor. Sometimes we subsidize if you cannot afford it (healthcare). Sometimes we don't (fast food delivery). If you believe you're entitled to undervaluing someone else's labor below a living wage while being poor yourself, can't help that. Belief systems are weird.

If I get food delivered for less than some definition of a living wage, the delivery person is still better off than if I had walked to the restaurant myself. If the delivery person had a better job available, he or she would have taken it.

[deleted]

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#86

Post by legitster »

The NYC report is interesting but also very problematic.

The justification of the minimum pay over NYC minimum wage is a mixture of reasonable (DoorDash not paying employee taxes, worker costs) and ... creative (like rolling in cost of living adjustments to minimum wage just because you can).

More importantly:

> First, the model assumes that, from 2023 to 2025, apps will respond to the minimum pay rate by increasing deliveries per hour worked from the current 1.63 to 2.50. This assumption is based on the Department’s identification, using the record-level data obtained from apps, of large differences between apps in the number of deliveries per hour.

Their "model" is making HUGE assumptions about the apps being able to "innovate" in NY, based on data coming from their own black-box reported numbers. And nearly all of calculations about how the pricing, cost to businesses, customer price sensitivity, and take-home pay of the workers is entirely based on very flimsy projections.

I have no problem if NY wants to level the playing field between employees and contractors so that apps have to pay fair. But they are taking things one step further just because they have the mandate to do so. And there's no way that the people setting policy based on these arbitrary numbers are ever going to be held accountable for them.

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#87

Post by lhorie »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #72
lhorie wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a somewhat outdated narrative to still be parroting. Uber just got included into the SP 500. One of the pre-requisites for that is being profitable on a GAAP basis.

Which if I recall correctly they are only profitable due to a one time revenue boost right of something like hundreds of millions ? And that one time "revenue" boost was that a company they own they are asserting is now valued more than last year. And they are calling that "revenue".

No, it's operating profit.

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#88

Post by ghaff »

Nextgrid wrote: post #46
kiba wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't really viable business models to begin with. Only VC funding can keep these online platform up.

The basic concept of food delivery existed long before tech and VC and was viable. The only reason these companies can't turn a profit is because all those microservices, ads and "engagement" don't come for free.

>The basic concept of food delivery existed long before tech and VC and was viable.

In limited markets, for specific types of food, and for pretty crappy wages for the delivery people. (And, yes, for mostly pretty low tech approaches.)

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#89

Post by quickthrower2 »

ejstronge wrote: post #3
jimbok wrote: post #2

"As always 100% of tips go to dashers" lol it was "as always" definitely remember reading that DD kept couriers tips...

They used tips (and may still use tips) to refund themselves for the minimum pay offered to dashers. The language was very deceptive, as giving a tip did not always increase the amount of money received by a dasher.

Can’t beat cash for appreciation money.

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#90

Post by ceejayoz »

lhorie wrote: post #50
kiba wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't really viable business models to begin with. Only VC funding can keep these online platform up.

That's a somewhat outdated narrative to still be parroting. Uber just got included into the SP 500. One of the pre-requisites for that is being profitable on a GAAP basis.

I mean, Enron was in the S&P 500, too.
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