Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've seen some currently used COBOL that had it's like change date in the early 80s in the finance industry, so there some rather ancient programs out there. Of course this also means that these files have met the needs of the industry that long and bug free so why go messing with things that move 100s of millions/billions of dollars per day.
Even if it's not handling billions of dollars a day... Why fix what isn't broken? Software isn't an end into itself, it's a tool to solve a business need. If the business need is met, there's not anything to fix.
Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java
81–90 of 186 posts
Re: Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java
#82I feel like this solution was written by someone who hasn’t built software before. Doing a rewrite for the sake of a rewrite is not a good idea.
So... Having no COBOL devs left is a better one? What's the alternative then?
Re: Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java
#83The article title is clickbaity, but the actual point is the proposal of using LLMs to translate large amounts of legacy COBOL systems to more modern languages like Java. Doesn't seem terribly useful to me. I expect you could get a 90% solution faster, but the whole challenge with these projects is how to get that last bit of correctness, and how to be confident enough in the correctness of it to actually use it in P…
> I expect you could get a 90% solution faster, but the whole challenge with these projects is how to get that last bit of correctness, and how to be confident enough in the correctness of it to actually use it in Production. Is the goal to get working systems or to generate support activity? Or to tank the systems and replace them? > it's a management problem, and no AI tech is going to fix that What if we replace m…
Re: Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hell, after seeing both kind of applications (java vs cobol) by these bank/financial companies I am of the opposite mind. Those COBOL applications will keep working until the sun burns up or inflation makes the numbers so long they no longer fit in bounds. The java applications they write should fill you with terror.
Why do you say the Java applications at banks and financial institutions so bad? I'm not trying to contradict you or say you're wrong; I just want to know why. Not having ever seen this kind of software, I would assume that the existing COBOL applications are good simply because all the bad COBOL code was probably scrapped decades ago, an example of survivorship bias.
But if you already have an old house that's working it's worth considering survivorship bias if you're building a new house to replace it. That new house is much less likely to survive that bias filter. Getting the new house as good as the old house will likely take you far more time and money than you expected.
And the same is with software. For example including outside libraries in your application makes the code much easier to write. You don't have to reproduce functionality. But libraries typically work like kitchen sinks. You may not have wanted a garbage disposal, but your library came with it and for the next X years your application is around you have to make sure that disposal doesn't catch fire. From the security side you have to make sure there is no code interaction with disposal or any of the other 'household' functions its including that you're not testing for.
At least in what I do for a living which is in the field to code security reviews (I don't do these reviews myself, but I work with the teams that do), the amount of security issues that get caught in these new applications in a multi round process, at least to me is staggering. It has to be a multi round process as we see the issues being reintroduced we'd call out in previous sessions. Quite often in these larger organizations the programming teams are so unstable that between our first calls and last calls the entire team working on it will have rotated out.
Re: Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java
#85Classic misunderstanding of programming languages. The only thing stopping cobol from being "known" is these companies paying for it.
Chicken and egg, companies stop paying, say no devs, devs not interested as no companies paying for it. Tell me that COBOL to Java porting pays $150K p/a and I'll be happy to take the job, at least for a year or 3.
Re: Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java
#86The actual product name for this one is "watsonx Code Assistant for Z", as the author could have found with a simple web search:
https://www.google.com/search?q=watsonx+cobol+java
https://newsroom.ibm.com/2023-08-22-IBM-Unveils-watsonx-Gene...
Disclosure: I work for IBM in "watsonx Orders", an automated order taker for restaurant drive-thrus.
Re: Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java
#87The article title is clickbaity, but the actual point is the proposal of using LLMs to translate large amounts of legacy COBOL systems to more modern languages like Java. Doesn't seem terribly useful to me. I expect you could get a 90% solution faster, but the whole challenge with these projects is how to get that last bit of correctness, and how to be confident enough in the correctness of it to actually use it in P…
Re: Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've seen some currently used COBOL that had it's like change date in the early 80s in the finance industry, so there some rather ancient programs out there. Of course this also means that these files have met the needs of the industry that long and bug free so why go messing with things that move 100s of millions/billions of dollars per day.
Even if it's not handling billions of dollars a day... Why fix what isn't broken? Software isn't an end into itself, it's a tool to solve a business need. If the business need is met, there's not anything to fix.
I bet there are plenty of shops that have software they’d love to run on a cheap cloud server, so that they could retire their hyperexpensive big iron.
Re: Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java
#89The article title is clickbaity, but the actual point is the proposal of using LLMs to translate large amounts of legacy COBOL systems to more modern languages like Java. Doesn't seem terribly useful to me. I expect you could get a 90% solution faster, but the whole challenge with these projects is how to get that last bit of correctness, and how to be confident enough in the correctness of it to actually use it in P…
I have 0 experience in this field, but I'm willing to take a guess that the majority of a Cobol to X developer's work is not (re)writing code, but figuring out what the original code does, what it's supposed to do, and verify that the new code does the same thing. More testing than programming.
Re: Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
COBOL is pretty easy to learn. The problem is that it is so full of archaic nonsense (less so with the more recent versions) that you will be tearing your hair out and wishing for something more modern. COBOL's main value is in maintaining a pile of legacy codebases, mostly in fintech and insurance that are so large and so old that rewriting them is an absolute no-go. These attempts at cross compiling are a way to ge…
> that rewriting them is an absolute no-go Rewriting and expecting 100% feature-parity (and bug-parity, since any bugs/inconsistencies are most likely relied upon by now) is realistically impossible. However, new banking/insurance startups proved you can build this stuff from scratch using modern tooling, so the migration path would be to create your own "competitor" and then move your customers onto it. The problem…
The green field isn't everything.