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Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

timeuse.barcelona

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Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#81

Post by golemotron »

datadrivenangel wrote: post #2

"After agreement of a common date within the EU, we recommend doing the transition in 1 to 2 steps, depending on the member state: Step 1: All EU countries abolish the clock change to DST in spring and remain on the clock time they use in winter. For those countries whose recommended time zone is their current standard time, no further steps need to be taken. Step 2: Those countries whose recommended time zone is not…

> I really wish we could do this in the US.

The US is about 4000 miles wider. That makes it hard.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#82

Post by jetzzz »

highmastdon wrote: post #32

We (Europe) shouldn't fragment time zones that much. We (NL) should stay on permanent summer time. Reasons - criminality is lower when there's longer light - earlier darkness leads to more accidents. It's better to have longer darkness after the masses are RESTED (in the morning), opposed to when they're TIRED (in the evening) - longer day-time for office workers, is more productive - shorter time of year that has lo…

> We (NL) should stay on permanent summer time.

> Reasons

> ...

Why not just have time as close to solar as possible and move working hours as needed? I have always found arguments for permanent summer time very confusing. Just move working hours as needed, why do you need to deviate the entire clock from the solar time for that?

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#83

Post by [deleted] »

NeoTar wrote: post #60

Putting Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland (AKA Ireland) on different timezones strikes me as political suicide for anyone proposing it. But otherwise I am warm to the proposal. Some tweaks would make it more practical/politically acceptable (keep Portugal and Ireland on the Western Time Zone, don't split up Greece from the islands).

[deleted]

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#84

Post by bluGill »

charlieyu1 wrote: post #48

Don't think it is workable. Changing clocks is annoying, but probably a good idea when you live in high latitudes.

Changing clocks only makes sense (to the little it does) in middle latitudes when there is a decent amount of both light and dark in a day in the worse case, as you can shift things around to use the light better (maybe). When there are only a couple hours of light/dark in the day it doesn't mater what the clocks do, you can't really do anything different.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#85

Post by serpix »

datadrivenangel wrote: post #76
raverbashing wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"permanent summer time" yes, and have you checked how does that look like in winter, right? It would mean a sunrise at 9h30 (given today's sunset/sunrise times)

Better than sunset at 4:30pm.

you're lucky, it is 3:30pm in Finland. Dusk at 3pm. Up north it is even worse, although they've got the Borealis and usually snow.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#86

Post by GuB-42 »

highmastdon wrote: post #32

We (Europe) shouldn't fragment time zones that much. We (NL) should stay on permanent summer time. Reasons - criminality is lower when there's longer light - earlier darkness leads to more accidents. It's better to have longer darkness after the masses are RESTED (in the morning), opposed to when they're TIRED (in the evening) - longer day-time for office workers, is more productive - shorter time of year that has lo…

> It's better to have longer darkness after the masses are RESTED (in the morning), opposed to when they're TIRED (in the evening)

Speak for yourself! I am definitely sleepier in the morning, and definitely feel less safe driving in the morning.

I prefer summer time, because I almost never wake up before dawn, but for most people, I think DST is actually the best. You generally want people to wake up at around sunrise. It means we could adjust office hours to sunrise, say, work starts 1h30 after sunrise and ends 10h after sunrise. Nice, but it would be a mess. Instead we are using clocks, but the problem becomes that during winter, you will wake up and even sometimes start to work at night, something that most people dislike, and during the summer, morning daylight is lost to sleep. So, how to fix the problem? DST of course. It is an approximation, but it means that as a whole, our lives more closely match the sun cycles.

So that's my opinion, keep the DST. It is added complexity compared to no DST, but we have been doing that for decades, we know how to deal with it. And while many people want to abolish DST, about half want winter time, the other half want summer time, there is no consensus, so we might as well keep DST.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#87

Post by ghaff »

xoa wrote: post #53
datadrivenangel wrote: post #2

"After agreement of a common date within the EU, we recommend doing the transition in 1 to 2 steps, depending on the member state: Step 1: All EU countries abolish the clock change to DST in spring and remain on the clock time they use in winter. For those countries whose recommended time zone is their current standard time, no further steps need to be taken. Step 2: Those countries whose recommended time zone is not…

Well we can't, and that's having tried! The replies do a great job of illustrating why really: there's no consensus. Some want permanent standard time. Some want permanent DST. Some are fine the way it is. In a big country spanning a lot of latitude as well as longitude and tens of millions on wildly different work and sleep schedules, messy compromise making no one entirely happy is what success looks like. Basicall…

I don't really care any longer having a pretty flexible schedule and no commute. But living in relatively northern New England, the timezone tweaks for summer and winter really were pretty welcome. I suspect that most of those ranting about timezone changes wouldn't actually want sunrise at 4am or sunset at 3pm.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#88

Post by seydor »

datadrivenangel wrote: post #77
seydor wrote: post #55

Half of greece having a different timezone that's kind of ridiculous Why don't we reduce working hours to 7 also

How about 6 working hours for half the year and 7 working hours for the other half?

which half

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#89

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

jetzzz wrote: post #82
highmastdon wrote: post #32

We (Europe) shouldn't fragment time zones that much. We (NL) should stay on permanent summer time. Reasons - criminality is lower when there's longer light - earlier darkness leads to more accidents. It's better to have longer darkness after the masses are RESTED (in the morning), opposed to when they're TIRED (in the evening) - longer day-time for office workers, is more productive - shorter time of year that has lo…

> We (NL) should stay on permanent summer time. > Reasons > ... Why not just have time as close to solar as possible and move working hours as needed? I have always found arguments for permanent summer time very confusing. Just move working hours as needed, why do you need to deviate the entire clock from the solar time for that?

Because it's easier to adjust the clock than to get employers to adjust schedules and to adjust public transit etc. accordingly.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#90

Post by serpix »

wewxjfq wrote: post #71
jonathankoren wrote: post #24

Abolishing daylight savings and keeping standard time. If you’re going to abolish it, this is the way. None of this permanent summertime nonsense.

I want summer time all year. In winter it really doesn't matter if the sun rises at 8am or 9am and if it sets at 4pm or 5pm, it's depressing no matter what. But with winter time in summer, you rob working people of a chance to catch some sunlight in a meaningful intensity after work. It will just make people more depressed.

yeah, it's depressing to start working at dark and stop working at dark. What a waste of life.
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