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Meta Designed Products to Capitalize on Teen Vulnerabilities, States Allege

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Re: Meta Designed Products to Capitalize on Teen Vulnerabilities, States Allege

#81

Post by SpaceManNabs »

RandomLensman wrote: post #69
SpaceManNabs wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been studied mostly on US adolescents. There is some research on Dutch teens too. I would say more that this effect is more well studied on US teens so we can say more conclusive things on US teens. In addition, there is some indication that the effect could also be present in non-US teens and should be further studied.

Thanks. Most things I have seen have the US/perhaps Anglo-Saxon countries stand stand out (e.g., https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-resistance-hypot... ), but could indeed by evolving. That makes putting it on social media alone much more tenuous, though.

A lot of the research says that social media isn't a cause, but more of a catalyst in the presence of other factors like cyber bullying

This reminds me of similar effects where people attributed misinformation online to mostly right wing people, but it was actually right wing was only a catalyst when a predisponsity for chaos was also present OR when de-policing and federal investigations were blamed for rise in crime when it was only also when a particular district had a "viral" event.

I don't think social media is a causal factor in itself, but it is definitely a catalyst factor in the presence of other things like wealth inequality, clout chasing, and cyberbullying.

Re: Meta Designed Products to Capitalize on Teen Vulnerabilities, States Allege

#82

Post by ketzo »

stanislavb wrote: post #72

Now, please, let’s discover and discuss how TikTok is designed … I think it’s even worse.

This is why I support a TikTok ban -- we can't discover that. Not with the U.S. justice system and press, anyway, not in any way that matters.

Re: Meta Designed Products to Capitalize on Teen Vulnerabilities, States Allege

#83

Post by Curvature5868 »

The dilemma parents are grappling with is this: tablets and smartphones, while beneficial for children's learning and socializing, also expose them to constant marketing and propaganda, even within the confines of their bedrooms, as they attempt to connect with peers or complete tasks.

Previously, children's exposure to marketing and propaganda was mostly confined to their entertainment hours, during which they watched television or read magazines. There was at least some hope for moderation. However, "apps" have blurred these boundaries, as the same devices used for education and social interaction are also channels for persistent advertising and messaging, making it harder to limit exposure to just "entertainment" time.

Re: Meta Designed Products to Capitalize on Teen Vulnerabilities, States Allege

#84

Post by AmericanChopper »

quacked wrote: post #7
avalys wrote: post #4

Do grocery stores “capitalize on vulnerability” when they place name-brand products at eye level? Do carmakers “capitalize on vulnerability” when they advertise pickup trucks as big tough vehicles for tough, outdoorsy men? Do providers of health insurance for pets “capitalize on vulnerability” when they say you need to buy their product if you love your pet? At some point people need to be responsible for their own d…

Yes, yes, and yes. However, the three situations you named are targeting adults. Children and teenagers are worth insulating from the full might of advertisers, propagandists, and always-on virtual social circles.

I would argue that it is the responsibility of parents to decide how to do that. But if you want a legislative solution, there already is one (COPPA) which prevents people under the age of 13 from joining social media.

If you think those legal protections aren’t fit for purpose (they were created long before social media even existed), then you should take that up with your legislators. I personally wouldn’t trust them to approach that task without implementing something horribly tyrannical, like implementing a requirement for a full KYC process for creating social media accounts. So I’d advise that you be careful what you ask for in that respect.

Re: Meta Designed Products to Capitalize on Teen Vulnerabilities, States Allege

#85

Post by liquidpele »

BizarreByte wrote: post #12
NickC25 wrote: post #3

Should come as no surprise, honestly. Above all else since turning public, Meta is in the business of making money. It's not illegal to target user's vulnerabilities in order to get the user to spend more time or money on their platform. It's unethical as hell, but it's business 101 - the shareholders would revolt if Zuck came out and said "here's this opportunity to make you all a ton of money, but we're placing our…

> It's not illegal to target user's vulnerabilities in order to get the user to spend more time or money on their platform. Perhaps it should be illegal to target children in such ways? I'm tired of this argument that companies should be able to do whatever they wish in the name of profit, they need to be reigned with strong regulations.

It’s also BS. Companies have branding and PR teams because they know it matters for profits. The issue with meta, twitter, etc is their real customers are advertisers. They can piss off users, and just pretend some % of bots are users. And let’s be real, few marketing companies are held accountable to their level of actual impact.

Re: Meta Designed Products to Capitalize on Teen Vulnerabilities, States Allege

#86

Post by jocaal »

antiviral wrote: post #75
splitwheel wrote: post #43

There is science driving the design of products to make them addictive. For teen girls - the apps are designed to scare them about being socially excluded. For teen boys - the apps are designed to fill their need to master skills. The issue that the government has to deal with with app addictions is self harm attempts by girls (e.g. emergency room visits) and underperformance of boys in the real world (e.g. low colle…

Yes, and moreover, the important point in the article that some people seem to be forgetting is that Meta itself believed that certain design choices led to addictive products and worked to incorporate those designs despite harmful consequences to children and adults alike. It matter much less that anyone on the outside believes this or not. Additionally, saying that children and adults should be wholly responsible f…

> Additionally, saying that children and adults should be wholly responsible for this is like saying the Chinese and not the British should be responsible for their opium addiction (see Opium War) and that homeless in San Francisco should be responsible for their Fentanyl addition. They can always just say no, right?

This is why I find it funny that FAANG people call themselves software engineers. In the real world, an engineer is wholly responsible for the projects they bring into the world. Imagine a bridge collapses and someone dies. Then in court the family is told that the person was responsable to research bridge designs before using it. These social media companies are just run by money hungry a-holes.

Re: Meta Designed Products to Capitalize on Teen Vulnerabilities, States Allege

#87

Post by LesZedCB »

Curvature5868 wrote: post #83

The dilemma parents are grappling with is this: tablets and smartphones, while beneficial for children's learning and socializing, also expose them to constant marketing and propaganda, even within the confines of their bedrooms, as they attempt to connect with peers or complete tasks. Previously, children's exposure to marketing and propaganda was mostly confined to their entertainment hours, during which they watch…

> while beneficial for children's learning and socializing

citation needed? or are we just assuming because, well, there's education and social information and apps available on them?

Re: Meta Designed Products to Capitalize on Teen Vulnerabilities, States Allege

#88

Post by Curvature5868 »

LesZedCB wrote: post #87
Curvature5868 wrote: post #83

The dilemma parents are grappling with is this: tablets and smartphones, while beneficial for children's learning and socializing, also expose them to constant marketing and propaganda, even within the confines of their bedrooms, as they attempt to connect with peers or complete tasks. Previously, children's exposure to marketing and propaganda was mostly confined to their entertainment hours, during which they watch…

> while beneficial for children's learning and socializing citation needed? or are we just assuming because, well, there's education and social information and apps available on them?

I think it is hard to argue that you can't learn anything or socialize on your phone.

Re: Meta Designed Products to Capitalize on Teen Vulnerabilities, States Allege

#89

Post by superkuh »

dotandgtfo wrote: post #77
superkuh wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought I was clear. There is no such thing as "internet addiction" or any subset. There's actually not even "gambling addiction" anymore. It's been properly renamed to "gambling disorder". But I guess we're not talking facts here. Instead we're concentrating on how it feels to us. And various ambitious policians are realizing they can use that collective lay delusion to further their careers. I am not pro-corporat…

Ok, it's just such an absurd position I wanted to make sure. So essentially you're arguing about semantics?

Nope. It's important to use the right word in this case for 2 reasons. First is the trivial semantic one you've perceived; addiction has a definition and things like physiological withdrawl symptoms don't exist for behavioral disorders. They aren't addictions.

The second, more important, is that even if we rename it properly to "internet disorder" there's still not significant evidence for making it a behavioral disorder. This is backed up by the lack of inclusion in the DSMV updates and ICD10 updates or 11 just released. People have certainly tried to have these things included: their income depended upon it. But the science rejected it.

You could also make the same correlations between autism spectrum disorder and the rise of popular (ie, non-usenet, irc, etc) social networks online. But it obviously wasn't caused by it. It was caused by a better identification of the phenotype and more accessible treatment. I think the claimed and unverifiable "increase in bad mental health/etc/etc in teens" is much of the same.

Re: Meta Designed Products to Capitalize on Teen Vulnerabilities, States Allege

#90

Post by [deleted] »

splitwheel wrote: post #43

There is science driving the design of products to make them addictive. For teen girls - the apps are designed to scare them about being socially excluded. For teen boys - the apps are designed to fill their need to master skills. The issue that the government has to deal with with app addictions is self harm attempts by girls (e.g. emergency room visits) and underperformance of boys in the real world (e.g. low colle…

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