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Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

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Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#81

Post by rayiner »

physPop wrote: post #72
cristeigabriel wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teams: Electron. Not as simple with Preview versions on Windows. I don't think they use Electron whatsoever anymore, and old versions weren't fully Electron either (I remember seeing Chakra [their old JS engine] in the stacktraces, doing some elementary logic), I think it's XAML with UWP + WebView2.

The new teams is react + webview see: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-teams-blog/... This to me was the biggest strike against MAUI. Teams team recently decided to switch tech stacks to address poor desktop performance, and explicitly didn't pick MAUI.

And the performance is still crap. What does that say about MAUI?

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#82

Post by debugnik »

deafpolygon wrote: post #74
physPop wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new teams is react + webview see: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-teams-blog/... This to me was the biggest strike against MAUI. Teams team recently decided to switch tech stacks to address poor desktop performance, and explicitly didn't pick MAUI.

It may be that MAUI wasn't mature enough yet at the time they started working on it.

Immature isn't the right word, MAUI is mostly a rebrand of Xamarin.Forms, which has been a thing for almost a decade now and already had some support for desktop before the MAUI effort. Rather, it's an irredeemable mess.

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#83

Post by bob1029 »

deafpolygon wrote: post #76
bob1029 wrote: post #22

We are huge into Microsoft but MAUI is on the no touch list. After maintaining a Blazor (server-side) app for a few years, it has become clear to me that even if the abstractions are ideal, the tooling may cripple the entire experience. I don't trust Visual Studio 2022 to not treat me like a piece of shit in a UI style project anymore. The only project types I really trust to not suck are: class library, console app,…

What UI framework should I be focusing on in 2023? Should I focus on web-based framework (vis-a-vis Electron or similar platform) or is there something more suitable for desktop UI?

We do web-only right now. No frameworks. Maybe focus on MDN if you think you can get the business done with a webapp. Once you master flex, grid & friends, you will be set free.

If we are still insisting upon native apps, I am growing increasingly-curious as to what the reason could possibly be. Unreal & Unity deploy to the browser. What does your business do that is so special by comparison?

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#84

Post by WirelessGigabit »

Ecstatify wrote: post #24

We decommissioned all our mobile apps built with Xamarin. Some of the Microsoft teams don't listen to user feedback. We use Azure DevOps, feedback from years ago for basic features still not developed. https://developercommunity.visualstudio.com/AzureDevOps

Seems like that team moved to GitHub actions. How old is it? And we still don't have YAML anchors.

Which is just a parser feature.

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#85

Post by nvm0n2 »

spacechild1 wrote: post #37
jiggawatts wrote: post #5

Three decades of experience talking here: If you don't see a vendor like Microsoft using a GUI framework for at least 50% of their new applications, then you've made a terrible mistake in adopting it yourself. Microsoft uses Google's framework for their own applications: Electron. Yes, you heard me right. Microsoft, a nearly 3 trillion dollar company, uses the framework of a competitor for their own desktop applicati…

Electron has been originally developed by GitHub and is now maintained by the OpenJS Foundation. It is not a "Google framework".

Foundations don't really do maintenance on products. Electron is maintained by a few people at Slack at one or two at Microsoft. Of course if you count the Chromium codebase then it is indeed "Google's framework" and they do nearly all the maintenance.

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#86

Post by charrondev »

nvm0n2 wrote: post #85
spacechild1 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electron has been originally developed by GitHub and is now maintained by the OpenJS Foundation. It is not a "Google framework".

Foundations don't really do maintenance on products. Electron is maintained by a few people at Slack at one or two at Microsoft. Of course if you count the Chromium codebase then it is indeed "Google's framework" and they do nearly all the maintenance.

With edge being switched to Chromium some years ago I would assume Microsoft also has a quite a few engineers working full time on it.

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#87

Post by ratg13 »

LikesPwsh wrote: post #78
ratg13 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve talked with people at MS that have told me Azure DevOps is no longer in active development. You should start your migration to GitHub actions.

MS don't seem entirely on the same page there. Azure Devops was their first choice for Power BI integration for some reason. https://ideas.fabric.microsoft.com/ideas/idea/?ideaid=020078...

Correct, I've only heard this from two people and this is only their take. This is not an official position.

But the fact that people within the company are saying this to me directly is enough to get me to believe it.

I wouldn't trust a random person on the internet saying stuff like this either, but even without any inside knowledge, it's just logical that they should try and limit time spent developing two of the exact same product .. and I think it's probably becoming apparent to you as well which one is on the chopping block.

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#88

Post by adamgordonbell »

Ecstatify wrote: post #24

We decommissioned all our mobile apps built with Xamarin. Some of the Microsoft teams don't listen to user feedback. We use Azure DevOps, feedback from years ago for basic features still not developed. https://developercommunity.visualstudio.com/AzureDevOps

My thinking is that you should extract as much logic as possible into some neutral format that you can run on any CI platform. Bash, Docker + Makefile, Earthly, python scripts... whatever keeps as much logic out of a proprietary vendor specific format.

Then you can switch easier, if need be.

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#90

Post by zigzag312 »

debugnik wrote: post #82
deafpolygon wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be that MAUI wasn't mature enough yet at the time they started working on it.

Immature isn't the right word, MAUI is mostly a rebrand of Xamarin.Forms, which has been a thing for almost a decade now and already had some support for desktop before the MAUI effort. Rather, it's an irredeemable mess.

Refactored Xamarin.Forms with breaking changes.
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