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Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

technologyreview.com

81–90 of 117 posts

Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#81
post #55
post #9

These people are too full of themselves. The physicists that invented The Bomb didn't have any special insight into the philosophical and societal implications. It takes a special kind of person to be able to invent something so big it can change the world, but it's about 0% chance that those people can control how the technology then gets used. I wish they'd focus more on the technical advances and less on trying to…

There is an even more important lesson in this in that the people who worked on the bomb thought the world would be over in short order and were totally wrong. Feynman talked about how there was an idea of "normal" people walking around not knowing they were basically doomed and going to die in a certain nuclear holocaust in a few years. Von Neumann thought the U.S. should launch a nuclear first strike at Moscow. Obv…

Not only that, but go back a decade ago and look at what the singularity people (which the AI alignment crowd comes out of) were saying that. When employment was struggling to recover after the great recession, the singularity folks said that it wasn't going to recovers, because tech was replacing humans, and that this was just the beginning of mass unemployment (one of the reasons why UBI got so popular).

CGP Grey's popular "Human's Need Not Apply" video is a good example of this kind of thought:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU&t=199s

Claims that self-driving cars are already here and already better than human drivers, and that the only question is how quickly they replace humans. He argued that Baxter, the general purpose robot, could already copy the tasks of a human worker and do the work for much cheaper. Baxter was discontinued in 2018 because of low interest.

These people have a horrible track record when it comes to technology predictions, and it's unnerving that, instead of reflecting on how wrong they've been, they're doubling down and trying to slow technological advancement.

Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#82
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It answered 16 for me. Then 10 when I tried again. Then 12. And 15.

ChatGPT 3.5? I'm using 4 and get 11 most times but other numbers occasionally.

Tried with GPT4, I got 12.

Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#83
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

chatGPT is very much aware that it's looking at a shadow and it deduces what's beyond the shadow by looking at millions of different permutations of the shadow. Additionally breaking the fourth wall is trivial to it. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by fourth wall but chatGPT can definitely talk about it's own existence.

> chatGPT is very much aware that it's looking at a shadow… Is a mirror aware because it creates a reflection? You’re making a very hard claim here with little evidence

The evidence is the chatGPT itself. You just ask it questions and probe it as deep as you can.

Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#84
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that people, especially tech oligarchs, aren't full of themselves, but many physicists who were inventing the bomb, most famously Oppenheimer, also laid a lot of the philosophical basis of implications of nuclear weapons. The situation may be a bit different now. The megacorporate world is the biggest threat from these tech developments, and the inventors are getting deeply embedded in this. Sort of similar situa…

They laid them out yet did not have the ability to prevent using it, didn't predict the cold War, and if you asked any of them, the chances the world would exist 10 years after proliferation were basically zero. They were all depressed because of how sure they were that they helped destroy humanity, it was just a matter of time. And here we are. We're talking about the most intelligent humans ever and even they got i…

They had very significant effects on the nuclear policy. Oppenheimer's (of course a big movement of which he figureheaded) big idea was to prevent a nuclear arms race, which obviously didn't fully materialize, but what was the basis for e.g. test bans, disarmantments and limiting proliferation.

I agree that you shouldn't ask the inventor just because they invented the gadget. But at least in the Manhattan project the scientists were in a very strong position that if they refuse to co-operate, the bomb just won't happen (soon enough). And for that you'd want inventors versed in the wider implications.

One difference from that era is probably that interest in wider philosophy and politics was encouraged from academics. E.g. the "giants of modern physics" (Oppenheimer, Einstein, Bohr etc) took great interest and scholarship in philosophy and societal issues whereas nowadays, as you said, there's practically 0% of the inventor of the gadget to understand the issues. They should "shut up and calculate", and leave the philosophy to philosophers and the societal impact to economists.

A problem is that philosophers and economists don't really understand the technology and its ramifications, and are heavily influenced by the hype. And philosophers have very little power to influence anyway. There are valid reasons for such specialization, but it has drawbacks.

Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#85
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, I totally disagree. I am become death, destroyer of worlds. The Nuremberg Trials. And AGI is 10x impact of nuclear. Builders are not cogs, and should not try to be them. We need MORE ethics and good intentions - not less. It is the psychopathic corrupt business rot we should be afraid of - not people actively trying to do good

you talk about AGI like it is an actual thing and not just some delusional pipe dream that these nerds use to tell themselves they are different from the Valley, they’re not just there for the obscene amount of money, and their shit doesn’t stink.

Even if chatGPT and LLMs not really AGI,but if they continue to improve their answers they can make serious impact. Especially if it will be very difficult to distinguish them from a human.

Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#86
> (Sutskever) has an exemplar in mind for the safeguards he wants to design: a machine that looks upon people the way parents look on their children

The most troubling statement in the entire article, buried at the bottom, almost a footnote.

Imagine for a moment a superintelligent AGI. It has figured out solutions to climate change, cured cancer, solved nuclear proliferation and world hunger. It can automate away all menial tasks and discomfort and be a source of infinite creative power. It would unquestionably be the greatest technological advancement ever to happen to humanity.

But where does that leave us? What kind of relationship can we have with an ultimate parental figure that can solve all of our problems and always knows what's best for us? What is left of the human spirit when you take away responsibility, agency, and moral dilemma?

I for one believe humans were made to struggle and make imperfect decisions in an imperfect world, and that we would never submit to a benevolent AI superparent. And I hope not to be proven wrong.

Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#87
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

chatGPT is very much aware that it's looking at a shadow and it deduces what's beyond the shadow by looking at millions of different permutations of the shadow. Additionally breaking the fourth wall is trivial to it. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by fourth wall but chatGPT can definitely talk about it's own existence.

It can generate text that talks about its existence. It's not conscious, it isn't talking. It's just a.co puter program that takes an input and produces an output. Stop anthropomorphizing it.

Awareness and understanding are not concepts exclusive to anthropomorphization. chatGPT understands you and is aware of things but it is obviously far away from the human experience.

You're the one turning humans into walking cliches thinking that anyone who considers chatGPT to be more than a simple program MUST be anthropomorphizing it and falling for the cliche biases that are completely obvious. Stop projecting, someone with a different opinion than you isn't some simpleton without the sophistication to helplessly anthropomorphize random text.

What you're not understanding here is that you are also a thing that takes an input and produces output.

The other thing you have to realize are that many experts and intelligent people are convinced this thing understands you. Take Douglas Hofstadter, author of Godel, escher, bach. The guy is literally going through a crisis right now because that book completely missed the mark.

Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#88
post #68

Man, he gets it. A number of choice quotes, but especially on the topic of the issues of how LLM success is currently being measured (which has been increasingly reflecting Goodhart's Law). I'm really curious how OpenAI could be making so many product decisions at odds with the understanding reflected here. Because of every 'expert' on the topic I've seen, this is the first interview that has me quite confident in th…

What's clear here is that users of OpenAI's products will end up in a worse place as a result of these developments. Ilya is on record as being against open sourced models with the view that they are too "powerful" to release. There are also accounts that Dev Day became a driving force for ousting Altman and stopping signups. Dev Day was about putting tools in the hands of users, so it's clear that his motivation is to restrict access to this technology. I don't want amateur philosophy from an LLM, I want greater capabilities and reduced costs. My hope is that this motivates user-focused competitors now that they have a sizeable window to catch up. So from my view Ilya will set back the field in the short term, but will spur competition in the long term.

Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#89

>> A lot of what Sutskever says is wild. But not nearly as wild as it would have sounded just one or two years ago. As he tells me himself, ChatGPT has already rewritten a lot of people’s expectations about what’s coming, turning “will never happen” into “will happen faster than you think.” In the '90s NP-complete problems were hard and today they are easy, or at least there is a great many instances of NP-complete p…

The architectures we know of so far have not been sufficient to achieve AGI with just text and image data. Humans and higher animals learn with much richer modalities than those two and probably would not be nearly as intelligent if forced to learn with just text and images. There are already ongoing efforts to train models with other modalities. Latest foundation models already go beyond pure LLMs.

Your reasoning above doesn’t mean some improvements to the current architecture(s) coupled with richer data would not be sufficient to achieve AGI.

There’s also a possibility OpenAI has recently achieved a yet undisclosed breakthrough.

Sam Altman at the APEC Summit yesterday:

"4 times now in the history of OpenAI — the most recent time was just in the last couple of weeks — I’ve gotten to be in the room when we push the veil of ignorance back and the frontier of discovery forward”

https://twitter.com/SpencerKSchiff/status/172564613068224524...

Re: Rogue superintelligence: Inside the mind of OpenAI's chief scientist

#90
“It is the idea—” he starts, then stops. “It’s the point at which AI is so smart that if a person can do some task, then AI can do it too. At that point you can say you have AGI.”

—-

Ilya’s success has been predicated on very effectively leveraging more data and more compute and using both more efficiently. But his great insight about DL isn’t a great insight about AGI.

Fundamentally, he doesn’t define AGI correctly, and without a correct definition, his efforts to achieve it will be fruitless.

AGI is not about the degree of intelligence, but about a kind of intelligence. It is possible to have a dumb general intelligence (a dog) and a smart narrow intelligence (GPT).

When Ilya muses about GPT possibly being ephemerally conscious, he reveals a critically wrong assumption: that consciousness emerges from high intelligence and that high intelligence and general intelligence are the same thing. According to this false assumption, there is no difference of kind between general and narrow intelligence, but only a difference of degree between low and high. Moreover, consciousness is merely a mysterious artifact of little consequence beyond theoretical ethics.

AGI is a fundamentally different type of intelligence than anything that currently exists, unrelated and orthogonal to the degree of intelligence. AGI is fundamentally social, consisting of minds modeling minds — their own, and others. This modeling is called consciousness. Artificial phenomenological consciousness is the fundamental prerequisite for artificial (general) intelligence.

Ironically, alignment is only possible if empathy is built into our AGIs, and empathy (like intelligence) only resides in consciousness. I’ll be curious to see if the work Ilya is now doing on alignment leads him to that conclusion. We can’t possibly control something more intelligent than ourselves. But if the intelligence we create is fundamentally situated within a empathetic system (consciousness), then we at least stand a chance of being treated with compassion rather than contempt.

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