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Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

#81

Post by sundvor »

davidbanham wrote: post #21
sundvor wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it looked like the CT primarily used its rear motors here, and perhaps also didn't have a "crawl" mode (it'd be XDrive in Subaru speak, I guess) as it was kind of all or nothing. Traction control systems can be upgraded; it'll be interesting to see Tesla return serve on this one. FWIW I reckon 99.9% of these monster trucks will never see conditions like in this video. And that's being generous. Australia has so…

The FBT exemption incentivises the common crop of dual cab utes. Those are Hilux, Ranger, etc. The much larger F150 shown here can only be had by first importing from the US and then converting locally to right hand drive. The associated engineering certificates and approvals are non-trivia. By that point they’ve picked up the luxury car tax due to the costs involved. They also attract a higher registration/CTP fee d…

The Rangers/Raptors etc I'm seeing that threaten to outnumber your regular sedans on the roads are the ones I'm referring to. They massively outsize your regular cars, even SUVs such as the Mazda CX-5, Tesla Model Y, or the Subaru Outback.

The lawmaking that allowed for instant asset write-off for dual cab vehicles up to $150k made zero consideration for the environment, neither pollution nor space wise. I see that it's now capped at $20k, but the damage has already been done.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

#82

Post by dreamcompiler »

The Tesla Model Y has an "Off-Road Assist" software mode [0], so Tesla certainly knows how to do this. I'd be shocked if the CT doesn't have this mode.

Whether the CT has sufficient suspension travel is another matter, and that cannot be fixed with software.

[0] https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_us/GUID-CC0F27E...

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

#83

Post by whalesalad »

mike_d wrote: post #76
whalesalad wrote: post #32

Honestly both are abysmal. Even the F-150 is slipping like crazy in areas where it shouldn't matter. Locking differentials are really required for this sort of thing - or a four wheel motor setup where a motor is dedicated to each wheel and can apply power equally. Afaik none of the EV trucks have a mechanical locker or even a limited slip? This might be as easy as a software update for both. Reducing tire pressures…

> No one is gonna be doing this sort of thing with an EV though. There is no charging infrastructure out in the boonies. Jeep has built solar supplied charging stations at most of the 56 badge of honor trailheads and continues to expand in partnership with Volkswagen. The Rivian recently did an end-to-end run of the Rubicon trail using the Jeep chargers.

TIL - that is pretty neat.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

#84

Post by topspin »

lolbase wrote: post #16

For context, this is a video of a traditional truck driving up the same hill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptTwpkWQY_s And here's a Range Rover going up it: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_00ah8lG4yk It seems like the CT doesn't have the equivalent of a locking diff, and had essentially no articulation. It'll be fine for the target demo (on-road usage). Both the Lightning and the CT clearly suffer from their weigh…

Yes, it's clearly the weight; every time the tires have to climb they slip. Both EVs have this problem because they're both very heavy; the CT was just the worse of the two. The ICE trucks climb with next to no slip because their missing the extra 1500 lbs. The Tundra has a live rear axle.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

#85

Post by jmtulloss »

fragmede wrote: post #78
jmtulloss wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do things like this from time to time with my Rivian. You're right that charging infrastructure is a challenge, but two things make a big difference: - Lots of campgrounds have 30 or 50 amp plugs for RVs. Oftentimes off-road trips I go on start by everybody getting together at night so we can get an early start the next day. If you can meet near an RV campground (not always a great option), you can charge - Most of…

it's a truck. throw a honda genny with a 240v output, and a couple of gallons of gas, and charge it overnight. it's not about being perfectly environment pious, but going away from rolling coal.

I thought about this more than I care to admit. Bottom line: I don't think it's worth it for most people to have a generator for camping.

For me:

    - Generators are expensive. If you want to charge overnight, you're looking at 6.6kw continuous and for a honda that's at least $3500. Luckily harbor freight exists and maybe you can get away with $900 (srsly harbor freight is amazing)
    - I already have a generator and my mostly propane-powered house can easily get by with a 4.3kw peak generator which would not be a great solution on the trail. At 3.5kw continuous... That's getting to be around 24 hours to get from 20% to 80% charging the truck
    - Generators are hard to store. Especially if you're not using them regularly and you bought a second one just to take offroading.
    - Generators are heavy, especially as you add more power. Sounds like a pain to load that thing up every time.
    - I don't want to take the generator when my wife and son might need it at home. Admittedly this has never actually happened (I don't make a habit of leaving when storms are inbound), but it's a risk.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

#86

Post by mike_d »

10u152 wrote: post #79
mike_d wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motors know nothing. The encoders know how much current is being input to the motor, but do not know the rotational output of the motor or the friction coefficient between the tires and the ground. All three are things you'd need to emulate a locking differential in software. You could fake the last two by having a reliable way to measure the travel of the vehicle from a source other than the wheels (GPS, downward ca…

Err, sorry but the encoders don't measure current. An absolute position encoder knows the exact speed/position of the motor. By that you can extrapolate the wheel speed position which you can just match 1:1 with the one on the other side. It won't be perfect as the reaction time of the system if wheel A breaks away and starts spinning but you don't need GPS or a downward camera to mimic a locking diff.

Sorry I was trying to rewrite for clarity and said encoder instead of controller.

If you naively emulate (as Telsa surely would) a 1:1 fully locking diff in software it will suck to drive. Electronic limited slip diffs already exist, like the Jeep FD/AD systems, which will use tire rotation sensors to determine forward momentum.

Now that I think about it, the Ford is probably already doing this.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

#87

Post by cameldrv »

The traction control on the Cybertruck looks pretty bad but to be fair the tires on the Cybertruck look really bad for off-roading. A lot of the comments here are about weight, motor torque, etc. Obviously if the wheels are slipping the torque is adequate. In terms of having adequate traction, tires and inflation pressure are very often a much bigger factor than anything else. Very often, even a 2WD truck can beat a 4WD truck if the 2WD truck has good off-road tires and they're aired down to a reasonably low pressure.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

#88

Post by FirmwareBurner »

carabiner wrote: post #40
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask which tire brand you had before, the ones that were skidding?

It was some weird Chinese brand that the previous owner installed. Had mediocre reviews.

I still don't get some drivers that have nice cars but cheap out on the tires.

Like FFS man, those tires are the only thing keeping your car on the road, why would you risk your life and cheap out exactly on the most important safety items?

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

#90

Post by fragmede »

jmtulloss wrote: post #85
fragmede wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a truck. throw a honda genny with a 240v output, and a couple of gallons of gas, and charge it overnight. it's not about being perfectly environment pious, but going away from rolling coal.

I thought about this more than I care to admit. Bottom line: I don't think it's worth it for most people to have a generator for camping. For me: - Generators are expensive. If you want to charge overnight, you're looking at 6.6kw continuous and for a honda that's at least $3500. Luckily harbor freight exists and maybe you can get away with $900 (srsly harbor freight is amazing) - I already have a generator and my mo…

Ah I mean if that's the only thing you'd be buying the generator for, you're right, it's probably not worth it. if you're buying a $70,000 truck, the cost of a big genney shouldn't be out of reach. If you're a construction worker of some sort, which people that own trucks often are, you probably already have a gennie for the job site. Yeah they're heavy and lifting it onto the bed is a pain, but get ramp or a buddy to help. if you've got toys with you (aka an ATV) you'll have a ramp anyway. Imo it's a decent backup plan if you're going to go off-roading with an electric truck because what are you going to do if the campground spots with electricity are already taken?
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