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It's perfectly legal for cars to harvest your texts, call logs

theregister.com

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Re: It's perfectly legal for cars to harvest your texts, call logs

#81
post #62
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * If you use a rental car, Factory Reset the head unit when you leave. If I rent a car, I won't pair my phone at all, even going so far as to use a car charger instead of the provided USB ports.

Agreed, although I use a “usb condom” for convenience…

What's the technical term for those? (I'm afraid to search for that at work haha)

Re: It's perfectly legal for cars to harvest your texts, call logs

#82
post #81
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, although I use a “usb condom” for convenience…

What's the technical term for those? (I'm afraid to search for that at work haha)

You can find them with the term "USB data blocker". You might have to add "dongle" onto that.

Re: It's perfectly legal for cars to harvest your texts, call logs

#83
post #15

I dug into the technical details here over the last few days and as usual it's not quite as sinister as the hand wringing: * Automotive head units are just embedded computers. Most run Linux, QNX, or Windows CE, with some proprietary UI system on top. * These machines usually store data in an onboard database in flash (sometimes just SQLite). * Sometimes, phone data is captured using standard Bluetooth mechanisms (Me…

I factory reset the entertainment system in all car rentals at pick up, never share contacts or give access to media folders of my phone and finally reset again when returning the car. It’s a pain to know who is calling you but you get use to it.

Re: It's perfectly legal for cars to harvest your texts, call logs

#84
post #81
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, although I use a “usb condom” for convenience…

What's the technical term for those? (I'm afraid to search for that at work haha)

Usb power-only or charge only cable.

You can create one by severing the data lines in a normal usb cable

Re: It's perfectly legal for cars to harvest your texts, call logs

#85
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds remarkably like saying "it's ok to drive drunk, as long as you don't hurt anyone"; which, clearly, is ridiculous. If you're breaking the law, there should be consequences even if you didn't _happen_ to hurt someone this time.

Most civil law requires actual damages. It’s the same situation. If you haven’t actually been hurt yet, suing doesn’t result in anything.

Which creates an incentive, if you see a shiny bit of sidewalk that might be ice, to step on it rather than stepping around it.

It's perverse and bizarre. If you avoid harm, you deprive yourself of the tools that you might've used to save others from the same harm.

Re: It's perfectly legal for cars to harvest your texts, call logs

#86
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most civil law requires actual damages. It’s the same situation. If you haven’t actually been hurt yet, suing doesn’t result in anything.

Which creates an incentive, if you see a shiny bit of sidewalk that might be ice, to step on it rather than stepping around it. It's perverse and bizarre. If you avoid harm, you deprive yourself of the tools that you might've used to save others from the same harm.

But also don’t actually suffer that harm. Which is good?

The tricky part here is when someone is steadily stockpiling things which seem likely to cause truly irreparable harm in the future. But that act is not itself causing harm yet. For example, stockpiling tons of sensitive data.

Another example, a mine with a nearly overtopping tailings dam full of toxic chemicals is a disaster that is almost inevitably guaranteed to happen.

But civil law gives little to no method of stopping that disaster until it has already killed countless people, since - as noted - it hasn’t actually happened yet. And there is no actual guarantee that it will! Potential options do exist, but are so time consuming and high risk, good luck.

But it does give methods for those people’s relatives to get compensation after the fact at least. Which is better than some alternatives.

Which is why other types of regulatory frameworks exist, at least in some cases.

Unfortunately, as in the tailings dam case, and the icy sidewalk case, the actual smartest move is to just avoid them all together - somehow. Move? Take a different route?

Not always possible though, and being constantly on the lookout for these things is exhausting and infeasible for most.

Not sure how that is possible privacy law wise though, even for the most alert? Never engage with anyone or give anyone anything true?

Re: It's perfectly legal for cars to harvest your texts, call logs

#88
post #15

I dug into the technical details here over the last few days and as usual it's not quite as sinister as the hand wringing: * Automotive head units are just embedded computers. Most run Linux, QNX, or Windows CE, with some proprietary UI system on top. * These machines usually store data in an onboard database in flash (sometimes just SQLite). * Sometimes, phone data is captured using standard Bluetooth mechanisms (Me…

I don't understand how you think this isn't nefarious based on your own post. I didn't ask my car to basically give a backdoor to all my texts and contacts to law enforcement. If that exists, it is certainly being used. I find it very sad that you have to prove injury despite the fact that is is clearly not in a user's benefit. Laws are always playing catchup to tech and we shouldn't have to play wackamole for every new absurd way our privacy is being abused just becawe can't prove that police aren't doing parallel construction to avoid the direct "injury" to us.

Re: It's perfectly legal for cars to harvest your texts, call logs

#89
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big opportunity for one of the big car rental agencies to come out looking great by advertising their "privacy focus". They could advertise to customers that they promise/certify that any personal data is wiped between rentals. Sort of like all the cleanliness guarantees that came about right after Covid hit.

Apple Car will be marketed out of both sides of their mouth, just like oh-so-private iOS devices are marketed today.

Why is everyone so sure Apple Car will be a thing?

Re: It's perfectly legal for cars to harvest your texts, call logs

#90
post #15

I dug into the technical details here over the last few days and as usual it's not quite as sinister as the hand wringing: * Automotive head units are just embedded computers. Most run Linux, QNX, or Windows CE, with some proprietary UI system on top. * These machines usually store data in an onboard database in flash (sometimes just SQLite). * Sometimes, phone data is captured using standard Bluetooth mechanisms (Me…

> This data is cached on the head unit so that finding a contact to call or reading a text message doesn't require 10 minutes worth of Bluetooth nonsense. This is such an early 2000s idea. I'd much rather my car act as a dumb display that shows a copy of my phone screen then an intelligent agent that tries to replicate functionality already extant in my phone.

EXACTLY. This "infotainment" BS harks back to vastly overpriced stock car radios of years gone by.

All we need is a place in the dashboard to mount our phones. Phones already have big-ass touchscreens and anything else we want... except of course now the audio outputs have been removed.

We should simply have a well in the dashboard with replaceable inserts that snap in to accommodate different-sized phone models, which would connect to the audio system and power. But no... we still have phones bouncing around in the cabin or attached to hokey third-party claws, and janky-ass Bluetooth which (how many years in now?) can't handle simple music playback reliably.

Every car in my household has an auxiliary input for audio and no support for audio over Bluetooth. One is a 2013 Mini, so it's not as if they're ancient.

And that's just fine. And if it MUST be overcomplicated, then yes... AirPlay seems to be the way.

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