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Benchmarking GPT-4 Turbo – A Cautionary Tale

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Re: Benchmarking GPT-4 Turbo – A Cautionary Tale

#81

In my day job we use GPT4 quite a bit and we shifted to GPT4 Turbo today. We got a 2-5% performance increase, and quite a bit of speed increase as well. Not to say that the parent post is incorrect, of course. Only that its not as cut and dry as a "GPT4 Turbo is distilled (read: watered down) GPT4".

Interesting. What do you use it for?

Re: Benchmarking GPT-4 Turbo – A Cautionary Tale

#82

The thing is why does the GPT-4 Turbo and the Updated GPT 3.5 Turbo have only an output of 4,096 tokens? Previous Model: gpt-3.5-turbo-16k, 16385 tokens context and completion (shared) New Model: gpt-3.5-turbo-1106, 16385 tokens context, 4096 tokens completion Previous Model: gpt-4, 8192 tokens context and completion (shared) New Model: gpt-4-1106-preview, 128000 tokens context, 4096 tokens completion Why would the s…

Probably because it's too expensive. Prompt can be processed quickly but output tokens are much slower (and that means more expensive).

From my local test on a 13B model, output tokens are 20-30x more expensive than input tokens. So OpenAI's pricing structure is based on expectation that there's much more input than output tokens in an average response. It didn't matter too much if a small percentage of requests used all 4k tokens for output, but with 128k it's a different story.

Re: Benchmarking GPT-4 Turbo – A Cautionary Tale

#83
post #4

> We designed a test for this theory: we reran the benchmarks without showing the models the instructions to each exercise. Instead, we just told them that they were Exercism exercises, and gave them the exercise names and function stubs. This summarizes all my skepticism agains the AI field. Pretty clear that they aren't solving the problem, they have them memorized.

Ok but you understand there's a body of literature that shows that LLMs don't "just" memorize

Re: Benchmarking GPT-4 Turbo – A Cautionary Tale

#84
post #4

> We designed a test for this theory: we reran the benchmarks without showing the models the instructions to each exercise. Instead, we just told them that they were Exercism exercises, and gave them the exercise names and function stubs. This summarizes all my skepticism agains the AI field. Pretty clear that they aren't solving the problem, they have them memorized.

+100 to that. My biggest scepticism is people actually creating a new problem while thinking they are solving problem. Don't get me wrong, translating natural language ideas into code is fun and all, the truth it is also code, yet in ambiguous language format given to the machine.

When did natural language became better for expressing development ideas than code? I know – when you don't know how to code in the first place. Then you will have to bet on all of the ambiguities of the language, cultural and meta-physical which words carry in order to hack your thing together instead of expressing yourself directly and explicitly.

Finally what is beautiful about strict code format we are so used to - it is truly the fastest and shortest path to get your thing done, in case you possess the knowledge needed.

Re: Benchmarking GPT-4 Turbo – A Cautionary Tale

#86
post #4

> We designed a test for this theory: we reran the benchmarks without showing the models the instructions to each exercise. Instead, we just told them that they were Exercism exercises, and gave them the exercise names and function stubs. This summarizes all my skepticism agains the AI field. Pretty clear that they aren't solving the problem, they have them memorized.

If that's your takeaway from this then you really missed the point. The implication here is that gpt-4 to gpt-4-turbo represents a leap away from memorization and toward better reasoning with a more complete world model.

Re: Benchmarking GPT-4 Turbo – A Cautionary Tale

#87
post #4

> We designed a test for this theory: we reran the benchmarks without showing the models the instructions to each exercise. Instead, we just told them that they were Exercism exercises, and gave them the exercise names and function stubs. This summarizes all my skepticism agains the AI field. Pretty clear that they aren't solving the problem, they have them memorized.

"memorize" implies they can only recite things verbatim and that's ignoring the massive leap in being able to synthesize disjoint "memories" in new ways.

Re: Benchmarking GPT-4 Turbo – A Cautionary Tale

#89

The problem is the discussed results are comparing proportions of a relatively small number - 67 questions. If you model this as a binomial distribution, then 62/67 which GPT4-turbo got gives a 95% confidence interval of the 'true' performance of 83.4% to 97.5%, ie it comfortably includes the proportion that GPT4 achieved (64/67=95.5%). I think the evidence from these tests are not strong enough to draw conclusions f…

> I think the evidence from these tests are not strong enough to draw conclusions from.

I've used gpt4 turbo for some coding problems yesterday. It was worse. That's enough to draw conclusions for me.

Re: Benchmarking GPT-4 Turbo – A Cautionary Tale

#90

The thing is why does the GPT-4 Turbo and the Updated GPT 3.5 Turbo have only an output of 4,096 tokens? Previous Model: gpt-3.5-turbo-16k, 16385 tokens context and completion (shared) New Model: gpt-3.5-turbo-1106, 16385 tokens context, 4096 tokens completion Previous Model: gpt-4, 8192 tokens context and completion (shared) New Model: gpt-4-1106-preview, 128000 tokens context, 4096 tokens completion Why would the s…

I believe openai wants to lower the time it takes for requests to finish to be able to accept more requests per server/gpu. ie money.
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