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A Grand Theft Auto III Re-Implementation

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Re: A Grand Theft Auto III Re-Implementation

#81

I'm surprised there are no open source GTA 2 clones (either straight-up or just similar games of that style). The total topdown PoV with rotating sprites seems like it would be ideal for low/zero budget enthusiast projects.

There's Retro City Rampage (which also has a DOS version) and Shakedown Hawaii.

Re: A Grand Theft Auto III Re-Implementation

#82

I'm surprised there are no open source GTA 2 clones (either straight-up or just similar games of that style). The total topdown PoV with rotating sprites seems like it would be ideal for low/zero budget enthusiast projects.

Yeah GTA2 was one of the most fun games I've ever played. Sadly it isn't even available on GOG, let alone open source...

GTA1 and GTA2 were released for free as Rockstar Classics and you should be able to find a copy on the Internet Archive, if not on Rockstar. Cheers!

Re: A Grand Theft Auto III Re-Implementation

#83
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

re3 is a very dubious legal case. They decompiled the game with debug symbols and then did a (aiui) non-clean room reimplementation of the code, based on the decompilation. It is protected legal activity to decompile a binary and study the source. It is protected legal activity to study some source code, describe it, and have someone who never saw the source reimplement the code described. It is straightforwardly ill…

"It is straightforwardly illegal to decompile source code, recompile it, and the distribute the recompiled binary." According to what? If the rules are so poorly defined that way then maybe it's not a bad thing to disregard them. Because simply decompiling source code and then recompiling it isn't a simple one-step thing in the way you suggest, not even close.

Next you will suggest that stealing original artwork and laundering copyright through generative art ML systems is not illegal...

Re: A Grand Theft Auto III Re-Implementation

#84
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah GTA2 was one of the most fun games I've ever played. Sadly it isn't even available on GOG, let alone open source...

GTA1 and GTA2 were released for free as Rockstar Classics and you should be able to find a copy on the Internet Archive, if not on Rockstar. Cheers!

Wow. Thank you. I didn't know.

Re: A Grand Theft Auto III Re-Implementation

#85
post #71

Did it really look that bad? There wasn't even a shadow underneath the character? I always find it a bit sad when I see pictures of old games I used to play. My memory of them seems to automatically "upgrade" how they look to modern standards. Then when I see them it's shocking and disappointing to see how wrong my memory is. I'd rather leave it as a memory.

LCD's are crap when it comes to colors. The new HDR monitors seem to be better, but playing old DOS and Windows games on an (non HDR) monitor is a pain. I am very courious how many colors from those 16 milion of 24 bits are LCDs able to reproduce. My LCD seems to be able sometimg less than 16 bits (65535).

Good LCDs (i.e. native 8-bit IPS) have been available for a very long time. No-compromise gaming IPS's (120hz+, backlight strobing) - for more than 7 years. Decent 60hz ones (and even 76hz - 2209WA with overdrive) - for far, far longer. Yes, there's still the IPS glow, A-TW polarizer-equipped panels are almost impossible to look up in the first place. Yes, the black level is still pretty bad, unless you have a stacked matrix reference Sony or something. Yes, cheap 16-bit-with-bad-dithering TN less-than-sRGB-gamut LCDs are not great, but so were the el cheapo shadow mask CRTs.

Re: A Grand Theft Auto III Re-Implementation

#86

San Andreas in Unity, if anyone is interested. You can't do anything more than walk around, drive, and shoot though. https://github.com/GTA-ASM/SanAndreasUnity

It's strange, even though the graphics of San Andreas definitely don't look good, this somehow looks worse to me. It's like smoothing out the outdated models and making them higher resolution makes them seem worse. Not blaming the developers of this, just surprised that a much stronger engine ends up looking worse somehow, maybe it's just the initial shock?

I can think of a couple reasons.

* Fidelity level (in terms of resolution, color amount and similar) needs to match with the amount of information within drawing. One example of this are some of the games during transition from EGA to VGA which allowed to use more colors. Just slapping a color gradient on everything doesn't necessarily look better than more stylized look carefully using a limited color pallet.

* Inconsistent quality level. While some of the assets are much higher resolution, not all of them are. This makes the older assets look worse compared to everything being equally low resolution. The mismatch can be caused not only by asset quality level but also lighting techniques.On hand you have sharp high resolution shadows on the other there are still some low quality textures and geometry.

* Higher resolution textures makes it easier to notice bad texture tiling and low resolution geometry. With a high resolution textures perfectly projected on low polygon it's much easier to tell how blocky they are and where the edges are, compared to using more blurry textures.

Re: A Grand Theft Auto III Re-Implementation

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very sad to see. OpenMW is a very similar project for a game of the same vintage - Morrowind. Still in active development (last commit 1 hour ago as of writing). To think Bethesda would be fine with openMW, but rockstar had to shut down openRW.

Openmw is a clean room implementation. Bethesda could throw a legal fit regardless but it would be indefensible for them to do so.

Clean rooms protect from patent issues, but do little to protect against copyright or trademark actions. The fact that one creates totally new code from scratch means nothing if the end product is too similar to the existing copyrighted work.

Re: A Grand Theft Auto III Re-Implementation

#88

I'm surprised there are no open source GTA 2 clones (either straight-up or just similar games of that style). The total topdown PoV with rotating sprites seems like it would be ideal for low/zero budget enthusiast projects.

There was "Greedy Car Thieves" but I can't seem to find a working official website, probably dead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxAMVhLNVX0

A lot of needless explosions, but very cool nonetheless

Re: A Grand Theft Auto III Re-Implementation

#89

Did it really look that bad? There wasn't even a shadow underneath the character? I always find it a bit sad when I see pictures of old games I used to play. My memory of them seems to automatically "upgrade" how they look to modern standards. Then when I see them it's shocking and disappointing to see how wrong my memory is. I'd rather leave it as a memory.

Somewhat sadly it seems memory works that way. It's as if over time it gets compressed and generalized in some way.

Maybe it depends on the person, but for me personally I have difficulties imagining what my parents looked like when they were 20 years younger, apart from reciting some specific photos.

When someone I see daily gains or loses weight slowly over time it's hard to remember what they looked like in the past.

I had a good mental picture of my now deceased cat in my head, but when I got a new cat of with a similar color and fur, the mental image of my previous cat slowly got replaced with how my new cat looks.

Re: A Grand Theft Auto III Re-Implementation

#90
post #20

Despite being called OpenRW they never tell you where the name comes from, only that it’s an attempt to write the engine from scratch with clean code. But why RW? Did the GTA games run on RenderWare?

GTA3/VC/SA, Manhunt and Bully ran on RenderWare. They made their own engine for GTA4 (and also for their pingpong game and RDR1 iirc) and I "presume" the games since. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockstar_Advanced_Game_Engine

> Bully

Just a heads up that a Bully sequel (trilogy?) is in the works:

https://www.xfire.com/ex-rockstar-games-employee-leaks-bully...

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